Does life here on Earth indicate life elsewhere?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of life on Earth for the existence of life elsewhere in the universe. Participants explore various perspectives on whether the presence of life here suggests that life could exist on other planets, considering factors such as the universe's finiteness, the conditions for life, and the nature of life itself.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the discovery of Earth-like planets in habitable zones increases the probability of life existing elsewhere.
  • Others suggest that the rapid emergence of life on Earth indicates that life may arise easily under suitable conditions, potentially making it common in the universe.
  • There is a contention regarding the finiteness of the universe, with some asserting it is finite while others argue that this is not definitively known.
  • A participant raises a Bayesian approach to assess the probability of life elsewhere based on the existence of life on Earth, but expresses uncertainty about the validity of the argument.
  • Some participants question the definition of life, suggesting that it may be too limiting and that other forms of life could exist beyond current understandings.
  • Concerns are raised about the small sample size of Earth when making assumptions about life in the universe, comparing it to the uniqueness of individual human characteristics.
  • There is a suggestion that time plays a crucial role in the development of life, with the possibility that life could have arisen and been destroyed multiple times throughout the universe's history.
  • Some participants express skepticism about assuming life exists elsewhere, emphasizing the lack of definitive evidence and the potential for unique conditions on Earth.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the presence of life on Earth indicates life elsewhere. Multiple competing views remain, with some expressing optimism about the existence of extraterrestrial life and others emphasizing uncertainty and the uniqueness of Earth's conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved questions about the definitions of life, the assumptions regarding the universe's finiteness, and the statistical implications of Earth's life as a sample size for broader conclusions.

  • #31
Ophiolite said:
How did life reach the Earth? What form was it in? Where did it originate? How long was it in transit? What was the mortality rate during transit? etc, etc. Until some of these questions can be addressed with plausible numbers, panspermia is no better an option than in situ abiogenesis.


http://videos.howstuffworks.com/tlc/28848-it-came-from-outer-space-bacteria-in-space-video.htm


I am not saying abiogenesis is impossible, i am saying that IMO the blueprint of life(the encoded information in the mutating RNA/DNA that makes life possible) is of alien origin. Our planet Earth is very young - less than 5 billion years old, so if abiogenesis were possible, life elsewhere in the universe would be at least a couple of billion years older than the early Earth. That's assuming there is some form of life elsewhere in the universe. As Baywax said, some forms of life have the ability to live dormant for millions of years in the Arctic ice and become active when brought to warmer temperatures. See the above video link.
 
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  • #32
baywax said:
There's nothing saying the Miller experiment doesn't describe the abiogenesis of life on another planet, then having it populate this one.
Nothing, except for the inconvenient fact that the Miller/Urey experiment said nothing relevant about abiogenesis. All it produced was a few organic molecules, including some amino acids. There is a richer range of these already available in interstellar space.
baywax said:
Some forms of life are said to have the ability to got dormant in space then flourish upon coming into contact with a habitable planet... primitive or not.
Which is the second half of the reason I lean to panspermia to account for life on Earth.
Our planet Earth is very young - less than 5 billion years old, so if abiogenesis were possible, life elsewhere in the universe would be at least a couple of billion years older than the early Earth.
Not necessarily. Population II stars lacked the metallicity to produce terrestrial planets. It required multiple phases of stellar processing to put the required material into the interstellar medium. We may just be the first. Someone has to be.
 
  • #33
Maybe ...
If time goes to infinite, the probability =1. since life is just a form of some material things.
 
  • #34
Bob_X said:
Maybe ...
If time goes to infinite, the probability =1. since life is just a form of some material things.
Unless you account for the heat death / big freeze, in which case, probability does not reach 1.
 
  • #35
DaveC426913 said:
Unless you account for the heat death / big freeze, in which case, probability does not reach 1.

Now the question goes to "what is time?".

Can the big freeze happens while time is going on?

Maybe heat death means the universe collapes to nothing and time fades away.
 
  • #36
Bob_X said:
Now the question goes to "what is time?".

Can the big freeze happens while time is going on?

Maybe heat death means the universe collapes to nothing and time fades away.
These are not terms I made up.

They both mean that, eventually, the universe will stabilize at a homogenous temperature, no hotspots, no cold spots, no transfer. All reactions thst can occur will have occurred, and no more reactions will support life.

Time will continue, but there will be nothing for life to arise from.
 

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