Does Light Curve Spacetime?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether light, as a massless particle or wave, curves spacetime. Participants explore the implications of energy and momentum in relation to light and its interaction with spacetime, touching on concepts from general relativity and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electromagnetic fields, which include light, have an energy-momentum tensor that contributes to the curvature of spacetime as described by Einstein's equations.
  • There is a question raised about whether any physical body can exist without energy, with some arguing that massless bodies must possess energy to be observable.
  • One participant suggests that if a massless body lacked energy, it would also lack momentum, raising doubts about its existence in a physical sense.
  • Another participant emphasizes that to observe something, it must interact with a measurement device, implying that energy exchange is necessary for existence in a physical context.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of physical quantities like entropy and wave functions, questioning their relationship to energy and whether they can be considered physical bodies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between energy and the existence of massless particles like light. While some agree that light contributes to spacetime curvature, others question the implications of energy in defining physical existence, leading to unresolved debates.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding physical quantities that do not directly relate to energy, such as entropy and wave functions, suggesting a need for clearer definitions and frameworks.

trees and plants
Hello there.The question is as stated:does light curve spacetime?We know that bodies with mass do curve spacetime but does a massless particle or wave like light curve spacetime?Thank you.
 
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Yes. EM field has energy momentum tensor which is a part of RHS of Einstein equation.
 
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Is there any physical body in the universe without energy?
 
universe function said:
We know that bodies with mass do curve spacetime but does a massless particle or wave like light curve spacetime?
In principle. The energy densities needed to test it are impossible to achieve.
universe function said:
Is there any physical body in the universe without energy?
No.
 
Ibix said:
In principle. The energy densities needed to test it are impossible to achieve.

No.
How do you know it is correct?Every massless physical body has energy?If it did not have what would happen?
 
What do you think "without energy" would mean, physically?
 
Ibix said:
What do you think "without energy" would mean, physically?
I think that we cannot observe things that do not have energy or experiment with them.But the question just came to my mind perhaps it is wrong.
 
universe function said:
Every massless physical body has energy?If it did not have what would happen?
If a massless body did not have energy then it would also not have momentum. I am not sure in what sense you could say that it even exists.

Anyway that is rather off topic from your OP.
 
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To put it differently: To observe something it must interact with some meausurement device or directly with your body to perceive some signal with your senses, but this means it must exchange energy with the measurement device, and if it has no energy there's nothing it can exchange and thus it simply doesn't exist.

Electromagnetic waves, and light is nothing else than an electromagnetic wave with frequencies we can sense with our eyes, of course carry energy, momentum, and angular momentum and thus it can interact with measurement devices or our retina to sense it.

Now the Einstein field equations basically say that the sources of the gravitational field (described by the Einstein Tensor related to the curvature of spacetime) are all kinds of energy, momentum, and stress (described by the corresponding gauge-invariant symmetric energy-momentum tensor of the corresponding fields), and this implies that also electromagnetic waves are contributing to these sources and thus cause a gravitational field.
 
  • #11
Ibix said:
No.

How we should understand physical quantity but has nothing to do with energy ,e.g. entropy and distribution function in statistical mechanics, wave function or probability amplitude in QM. I suppose they are not physical body neither have energy. We shall call them "physical information" ?
 
  • #12
anuttarasammyak said:
entropy and distribution function in statistical mechanics,
I would say that these are properties of a physical system, just as energy is.
anuttarasammyak said:
wave function or probability amplitude in QM
You might argue that the wave function is the physical body, to the extent that makes sense in quantum physics. Energy is the corresponding eigenvalue, anyway.
 
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