Does light exist outside of time ?

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    Light Outside Time
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of light and its relationship with time, particularly from the perspective of traveling at the speed of light. Participants explore the implications of time dilation, the nature of light's experience, and whether light exists outside of time. The conversation includes both theoretical and metaphysical considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant wonders what it would be like to travel on a beam of light and questions if time freezes for such a traveler, suggesting that light might experience the universe instantaneously.
  • Another participant asserts that traveling at the speed of light is impossible, indicating that speculation about such experiences has no basis in reality.
  • A participant acknowledges the impossibility of traveling at light speed but seeks to explore the metaphysical implications of what it might mean for light to "experience" time.
  • There is a suggestion that light is "frozen" in time and a question about whether time has any meaning for a beam of light.
  • One participant argues that applying concepts of time to light leads to absurdities, emphasizing that time does not have meaning for light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of light's relationship with time, with some exploring metaphysical implications while others emphasize the impossibility of light traveling at its own speed. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views present.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on different assumptions about the nature of light and time, leading to varying interpretations of light's experience. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or physical implications of these assumptions.

boatdeck
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Trying to imagine what the world looks like traveling at relativistic speeds of course has a noble history, vis a vis Swiss trams etc. etc. I get the thing about passing clocks at speed and staying young by going really fast (and slowing down again). I apologise if this perhaps rather obvious thought experiment has been done to death, but what would it be like to travel on a beam of light itself, by definition AT the speed of light ? What might one see ? What will happen to time ? It's this latter point which intrigues. Is time dilation such that the traveller's time frame actually freezes relative to the rest of the universe ? Does time stand still ? Does light exist (from its own perspective) outside of time ? Do all light wave travellers travel instantaneously to the end of time, the universe and “everything”, observing the rest of us slow coaches fizzle out to cold dark dust in an instant ?

From a Newbie waiting to be shot down ! - though don't be too harsh – I'm a veteran of Mr Tompkins and can claim at least an “A” level physics and maths.
 
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boatdeck said:
From a Newbie waiting to be shot down
Bang! ...sssss... plop. :wink:

boatdeck, Traveling at the speed of light is simply impossible. So, speculating about what it would be like to do so has no connection with reality. You can approach c but never attain it.
 
Bill_K said:
Bang! ...sssss... plop. :wink:

boatdeck, Traveling at the speed of light is simply impossible. So, speculating about what it would be like to do so has no connection with reality. You can approach c but never attain it.

Mmm. Yes I picked up on that point. With respect, LIGHT can travel at C, I kind of mean (in a just partly metaphysical way) what might it be "like" to be that beam of light ? What might the nature of it's experience be, if it had the capacity to observe it's surroundings ?
 
boatdeck said:
Mmm. Yes I picked up on that point. With respect, LIGHT can travel at C, I kind of mean (in a just partly metaphysical way) what might it be "like" to be that beam of light ? What might the nature of it's experience be, if it had the capacity to observe it's surroundings ?

From the FAQ at the top of this forum: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=511170
 
OK - so does that inform my question ? -= light travels at C and only ever travels at that speed, and cannot be stationary. Fair enough. I'm trying to finesse my Q. - is light "frozen" in time ? Does time have any meaning for a beam of light ?
 
boatdeck said:
OK - so does that inform my question ? -= light travels at C and only ever travels at that speed, and cannot be stationary. Fair enough. I'm trying to finesse my Q. - is light "frozen" in time ? Does time have any meaning for a beam of light ?

Time has no meaning for a beam of light.
Asking how light "might experience" time by applying the formulas for bodies with non-zero rest mass moving at speeds less than c to zero-rest-mass light moving at c leads only to absurdities.
 

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