Does the ball rotate about its axis?

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    Axis Ball Rotate
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around whether a ball on a string, moving in a horizontal circular path, rotates about its axis. Participants explore the implications of this motion and compare it to other examples, such as the moon's rotation relative to Earth. The conversation includes various viewpoints and attempts to clarify the concepts involved.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that the ball rotates about an axis perpendicular to the circular path, while another insists it does not, arguing that such rotation would wind up the string.
  • Some participants draw parallels to the moon's rotation, noting that it maintains the same face towards Earth, suggesting a similar behavior for the ball.
  • Several suggestions are made for visual aids, such as diagrams and color-coded balls, to help illustrate the concept of rotation to the associate who disagrees.
  • There are comments on the psychological aspects of the disagreement, with some suggesting that the associate may be unwilling to admit error due to ego.
  • Participants propose that the burden of proof should be placed on the associate to explain why the ball does not rotate if that is his claim.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on whether the ball rotates about its axis. Multiple competing views remain, with some participants supporting the idea of rotation and others contesting it.

Contextual Notes

Participants express frustration over the inability to convince the associate, indicating that the discussion may be influenced by personal dynamics rather than purely technical arguments.

uk071158
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Does the ball rotate about its axis?!

Hi Newbie here,

I have a disagreement with an associate.

I say that a ball on a string moving in a horizontal circular path rotates about an axis perpendicular to the said circle.

He insists that it doesn't as it would wind up the string if it did that.

Which of us is right, and can anyone explain why?

Many thanks.
 
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Consider a similar example: the moon orbiting around the earth. It always keeps the same face turned towards the earth, the same as a ball going around your head on a string.

At any point on the moon's surface except at the poles, the sun rises and sets once every (approximately) Earth month, because the moon is rotating around its axis.
 


jtbell said:
Consider a similar example: the moon orbiting around the earth. It always keeps the same face turned towards the earth, the same as a ball going around your head on a string.

At any point on the moon's surface except at the poles, the sun rises and sets once every (approximately) Earth month, because the moon is rotating around its axis.

My associate and I agree with the moon rotating about its axis as it orbits the earth, but I cannot get him to accept that the ball on a string rotates about its axis as it moves around the circle.

Can you provide an explanation that even a complete fool could understand, as I have tried all sorts of ways of explaining it to him without success.
 


Draw yourself a diagram of the ball + string at various points along its path as viewed from above. Label various points on the ball's surface for reference (for example, label four arrows N, S, E, and W). The side of the ball where the string attaches always points toward the center. As the ball completes half its revolution about the center, what happens to the orientation of the ball? Do the arrows on the ball still point in their original directions?
 


Doc Al said:
Draw yourself a diagram of the ball + string at various points along its path as viewed from above. Label various points on the ball's surface for reference (for example, label four arrows N, S, E, and W). The side of the ball where the string attaches always points toward the center. As the ball completes half its revolution about the center, what happens to the orientation of the ball? Do the arrows on the ball still point in their original directions?

Hi Doc,

I tried that one already, and it doesn't convince him.

I am at a complete loss as to how to open his eyes to the truth of the situation.
 


A version of jtbell's example should work. Tie a string to a peg and the other end to a ball. paint the half of the ball that always faces the peg white and the other side black. Rotate the ball around so the white side always faces the peg. Have him stand at a distance and watch the side of the ball facing him change back and forth between white and black.

Many people will not make admissions like this once their ego has been challenged.
 


my_wan said:
A version of jtbell's example should work. Tie a string to a peg and the other end to a ball. paint the half of the ball that always faces the peg white and the other side black. Rotate the ball around so the white side always faces the peg. Have him stand at a distance and watch the side of the ball facing him change back and forth between white and black.

Many people will not make admissions like this once their ego has been challenged.

I tried this too, I am at my wit's end trying to get this person to understand.
 


Sounds to me like his ego has been challenged past his capacity for admission.
 


uk071158 said:
Hi Doc,

I tried that one already, and it doesn't convince him.

I am at a complete loss as to how to open his eyes to the truth of the situation.
Have your associate draw his own version of the diagram. If the ball does not rotate, have him explain how the string doesn't wrap around the ball. Put the burden on him.

(Don't discount the possibility that he realizes his error and is too embarrassed to back down now, as my_wan has pointed out.)
 
  • #10


He's just yankin' yer chain.
 
  • #11


AJ Bentley said:
He's just yankin' yer chain.
That's what I think. :wink:
 
  • #12


Doc Al said:
Have your associate draw his own version of the diagram. If the ball does not rotate, have him explain how the string doesn't wrap around the ball. Put the burden on him.

(Don't discount the possibility that he realizes his error and is too embarrassed to back down now, as my_wan has pointed out.)

I have tried that too, it seems he is unwilling to even try.

So I guess you and my_wan could be right and he is just too stubborn to admit he is wrong.
 
  • #13


Doc Al said:
That's what I think. :wink:

But its not only me he is annoying, but loads of others who have tried to get him to see it the right way.
 
  • #14


uk071158 said:
But its not only me he is annoying, but loads of others who have tried to get him to see it the right way.
Stop trying. Get him to convince you by drawing a diagram as I suggest in post #9. The burden is on him.

Did you draw your own diagram? If so, then it's his turn to show why yours is wrong.
 
  • #15


Doc Al said:
Stop trying. it's his turn to show why yours is wrong.

Burden-of-proof arguments are often used by people in a weak or losing position to try to place the obligation on the other party and then refuse to accept the 'proof'.

Simply point out that by democratic consensus, he has lost the argument and refuse to discuss it further.

In fact, come to think of it, why don't we all do that?
 

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