Does the maximum value of the following integral exist?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of a maximum value for the integral defined as ##a=\intop_{-\infty}^{+\infty}(\frac{df(x)}{dx})^{2}dx##, given the condition that ##\intop_{-\infty}^{+\infty}(f(x))^{2}dx=1##. Participants explore this question through examples and hypothetical modifications to the problem, focusing on theoretical implications and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that a maximum value for ##a## does not exist, providing the example of the function ##f(x) = \frac{\sin nx}{\sqrt{\pi}}## on the interval ##[0,2\pi]##, noting that while the first integral remains 1, the second integral increases without bound as ##n## increases.
  • Another participant agrees with the previous assertion and reiterates the example, confirming the behavior of the integrals.
  • A different participant appreciates the example and proposes a variation of the original problem, questioning whether a maximum value for ##a## would exist if the second integral used the fourth power of the derivative instead of the square.
  • This participant further explores the implications of their modified problem using the same example function, suggesting that the integral for the fourth power also tends to infinity as ##n## increases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that a maximum value for ##a## does not exist based on the examples provided. However, the discussion remains open regarding the implications of modifying the problem, particularly with respect to using the fourth power of the derivative.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the behavior of the integrals under different conditions and the specific forms of the functions considered. The implications of changing the power of the derivative in the integral are not fully resolved.

Tspirit
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Suppose ##\intop_{-\infty}^{+\infty}(f(x))^{2}dx=1##, and ##a=\intop_{-\infty}^{+\infty}(\frac{df(x)}{dx})^{2}dx##, does a maximum value of ##a## exist? If it exists, what's the corresponding ##f(x)##?
 
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No it doesn't exist. Consider the function ##f:\mathbb R\to\mathbb R## that is equal to ##\frac{\sin nx}{\sqrt\pi}## on the interval ##[0,2\pi]## and zero outside it. The first integral is 1 regardless of the value of ##n## but the second integral increases without limit as ##n## increases.
 
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andrewkirk said:
No it doesn't exist. Consider the function ##f:\mathbb R\to\mathbb R## that is equal to ##\frac{\sin nx}{\sqrt\pi}## on the interval ##[0,2\pi]## and zero outside it. The first integral is 1 regardless of the value of ##n## but the second integral increases without limit as ##n## increases.
Yes, you are right. Thanks.
 
Nice example, andrewkirk ! (Now I wonder what if the original problem were changed only so that the second integral used the 4th power of the derivative instead of its square.)
 
zinq said:
Nice example, andrewkirk ! (Now I wonder what if the original problem were changed only so that the second integral used the 4th power of the derivative instead of its square.)
I think it is like this: ##\intop_{+\infty}^{-\infty}f(x)dx=1##,and ##a=\intop_{-\infty}^{+\infty}(\frac{df(x)}{dx})^{4}dx##, does a maximum value of a exist?
If we use the example andrewkirk said ##“\frac{sin(nx)}{\sqrt{\pi}}”##, we have $$a=\intop_{-\infty}^{+\infty}(\frac{df(x)}{dx})^{4}dx=\intop_{-\infty}^{+\infty}(\frac{ncos(nx)}{\sqrt{\pi}})^{4}dx,$$ $$(ncos(nx))^{4}=n^{4}\left(\frac{1+cos2nx}{2}\right)^{2}=n^{4}[\frac{1}{4}+\frac{1}{2}cos2nx+\frac{1}{8}(1+4con4nx)],$$ so when ##n## is infinite, the ##a## is also infinite.
 

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