Does the US administration owe an apology to the French ?

[Smurf]

Liberty cabbage (sauerkraut) and hot dogs (frankfurters) from WWI were way funnier. The fact that the name "hot dog" for a food item actually stuck might be even funnier.

And the fact that the name is now used all over the world from Americanization is even funnier.

 

[BobG]

It was Republican Walter B Jones, of North Carolina, that had french fries in the capitol cafeteria renamed to 'freedom fries'.

Jones was also the Congressman that introduced the bipartisan bill calling a plan for troop withdrawal from Iraq.

If not an apology, that's still a pretty strong acknowledgment that at least some members of Congress feel they were slightly misled about Iraq before they voted to authorize the invasion.

 

[Smurf]

Nah, he was just flip floppin'

 

[BobG]

If you read between the lines of statements made by the administration, I think it's obvious that Bush plans to apologize. Of course, the bad news is that the apology will be delivered by John Bolton.

Of course, in order to read between the lines that well, I had to lay my head sideways on my desk, squint my eyes really hard, and hold the left fork of my tongue in my right cheek.

 

[stoned]

No. The French were involved in illegal arms and illicit oil purchasing. This is why they were against the war. The Russians and Germans also had similar illegal contracts out. The Chinese are the Chinese, what can you say. The French government owes the world an appology for lieing to the world about its reasons to protest the war.

SILENCE !

 

[vanesch]

Yes, I found lots of news reports citing that quote as being 'widely reported' as one of Rice's. But I think the originator of that line was actually Washington Post's Jim Hoagland - the only person I've seen directly quoted (as opposed to 'widely reported to have said') - as describing Rice's 'mantra'. I wouldn't take that as a direct quote, more a chinese whisper of one man's impression of Rice.

Ok, I found another one from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4250701.stm

but I guess it falls in the same category. In fact, when I wrote it, I still had it clearly on my mind as having it read and heard several times. It was so universally repeated that I guess that if it weren't true I guess it would have been raining lawsuits!

What this article, and many others, does demonstrate is the atrocious attitude Americans can have towards other nations, simply because of a disagreement over one policy (forget decades of allegiance, this is "with-us-or-against-us" America now). Even in an editorial, the fact that this kind of hate speech is propogated and accepted...

Yes, that's the point I wanted to illustrate. I never had seen in my life such an organized hate campaign from one "civilized" democracy towards another one.

I'm going to vote 'no'. I think the Bush administration should apologise to bereaved families in Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention America, and to those innocent people tortured, mentally or physically, in the name of the 'war on terror'.

Oh, those ...

yes, that's another category of course. Saying bad things about someone, or bombing them, is indeed not the same :-)

 

[russ_watters]

Exactly which resolution are you talking about? The one from nearly 15 years ago? Or the one the UN refused to accept that would specify military action in the build up to Gulf War 2?

1441, November 8th, 2002. Essentially, a 'cooperate, or else' resolution. Iraq didn't cooperate, but the French (and others) didn't hold up their end of the deal.

This thread isn't about weather the French owe an appology to the US. That is completely irrelevant. If you want to talk about France owing an appology make another thread. If want to make an argument that France's actions make the insults justified and tolerable, then make such an argument already.

Great, so you don't want to know the reason for the "no" answer? The reason is exactly that:

Answer: No.
Reason: Its the French who owe the US an apology, not the other way around.
Why: The French owe the apology because they shirked their responsibility.

If you can think of another way to phrase that that doesn't include the French owing us an apology, by all means do it, but I don't see how you can separate that part without losing the meaning of the reason.

If you read between the lines of statements made by the administration, I think it's obvious that Bush plans to apologize.

Possibly, but what, exactly is he going to apologize for? My guess would be he'd only apologize for underestimating the difficulty of the aftermath.

 

[russ_watters]

Yes, that's the point I wanted to illustrate. I never had seen in my life such an organized hate campaign from one "civilized" democracy towards another one.

I have...

 

[vanesch]

My guess would be he'd only apologize for underestimating the difficulty of the aftermath.

Which was of course the entire point of discussion about whether it was a good idea or not to go to war !

George: "I don't like that Saddam"
Jacques: "nor do I"
George: "let's write some nasty papers to make him scared"
Jacques: "sure, all you want"
George: "I'd like to bomb that guy, are you coming ?"
Jacques: "I think you underestimate the problem. You're going to make a mess"
George: "You worm, stinking cheese eating vile coyote of a motherf**er bastard..."

[2 1/2 years later]

Jacques: "Eh, george, told you so..."
George: "yeah, guess you weren't totally wrong... but only for the consequences. I was right about the need for action!"
Jacques: "if you say so George, whatever you want... but about that stinking cheese eating thing?"

...

 

[stoned]

Behaviour of Americans (not all of course ) towards French peoples was shamefull and rude to the extreme. No wonder many Americans when traveling abroad are putting Canadian maple leaf stickers on their bagpacks.

 

[vanesch]

Liberty cabbage (sauerkraut) and hot dogs (frankfurters) from WWI were way funnier. The fact that the name "hot dog" for a food item actually stuck might be even funnier.

The other way around, do you happen to know where the name "Hamburger" came from ? I remember when I lived in Hamburg that there that you saw a lot of silly joke stickers on that.

 

[selfAdjoint]

The other way around, do you happen to know where the name "Hamburger" came from ? I remember when I lived in Hamburg that there that you saw a lot of silly joke stickers on that.

In the US, hamburger originally just meant ground or chopped beef. There was legislation passed in the early 20th century setting purity and content limits on "hamburger", so the butchers started calling it ground beef again. The name of the sandwich was transferred from the description of its meat as a "hamburger patty".

Perhaps there was a sausage associated with Hamburg that used beef instead of the common pork?

 

[vanesch]

Perhaps there was a sausage associated with Hamburg that used beef instead of the common pork?

I haven't gotten a clue. Someone in Hamburg told me he thought it had to do with the bombing of Hamburg during WWII, in that your "typical Hamburger" (inhabitant of Hamburg) was transformed into chopped beef, and I never figured out if he was making fun of me or not (guess he was...).

 

[Smurf]

Great, so you don't want to know the reason for the "no" answer? The reason is exactly that:

Answer: No.
Reason: Its the French who owe the US an apology, not the other way around.
Why: The French owe the apology because they shirked their responsibility.

If you can think of another way to phrase that that doesn't include the French owing us an apology, by all means do it, but I don't see how you can separate that part without losing the meaning of the reason.

Yes, everyone knows the same facts you do Russ. But there is no reason why this excuses the US from an dispitefull flame campgaign. You have yet to make an argument.

 

[The Smoking Man]

The other way around, do you happen to know where the name "Hamburger" came from ? I remember when I lived in Hamburg that there that you saw a lot of silly joke stickers on that.

Ich bin ein berliner.

I am a jelly donut!?

Gotta love the US knowledge of other languages.

... Like the French actually call 'fries' 'pommes frit'!

 

[edward]

Everything is about oil or money in Iraq

France controls over 22.5 percent of Iraq’s imports.[1] French total trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program is the third largest, totaling $3.1 billion since 1996, according to the United Nations.[2]
In 2001 France became Iraq’s largest European trading partner. Roughly 60 French companies did an estimated $1.5 billion in trade with Baghdad in 2001 under the U.N. oil-for-food program.[3]
France’s largest oil company, Total Fina Elf, has negotiated extensive oil contracts to develop the Majnoon and Nahr Umar oil fields in southern Iraq. Both the Majnoon and Nahr Umar fields are estimated to contain as much as 25 percent of the country’s oil reserves. The two fields purportedly contain an estimated 26 billion barrels of oil.[4] In 2002, the non-war price per barrel of oil was $25. Based on that average these two fields have the potential to provide a gross return near $650 billion

The French didn't want to lose the $650 billion. We would have done the same as they did.

Before the invasion, the USA was actually the largest importer of Iraqi oil, under the oil for food program.

The United States remains the largest importer of Iraqi oil under the UN Oil-for-Food program. However, U.S. companies can no longer deal directly with Iraq for its oil imports. U.S. companies are forced to deal with third party vendors as a result of a ban on all American companies imposed by Iraq. In 2002, the U.S. imported $3.5 billion worth of Iraqi oil

This means that the French were one of the third party vendors that we purchased Iraqi oil from. It ain't rocket science.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm217.cfm

 

[stoned]

one day in the future French going to get from Iraqi government more contracts to develop oil fields than they had ever lost, because they did not attack them . good move on behalf of French. actually USA has helped French a lot, they are highly respected everywhere, unlike American simpletons and imbeciles.

 

[Townsend]

American simpletons and imbeciles.

Nice generalization

 

[SOS2008]

It was Republican Walter B Jones, of North Carolina, that had french fries in the capitol cafeteria renamed to 'freedom fries'.

Jones was also the Congressman that introduced the bipartisan bill calling a plan for troop withdrawal from Iraq.

If not an apology, that's still a pretty strong acknowledgment that at least some members of Congress feel they were slightly misled about Iraq before they voted to authorize the invasion.

Thank you BobG for remembering that Congressman's name. Still, I wouldn't confuse his regrets about the war with his dislike for the French. Unfortunately it is likely to be awhile before the negativity fades among many Americans, which I feel is a a shame.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Nice generalization

But he didn't generalize ... he just pointed out the simpletons and imbeciles!

I guess it's all a matter of if you include yourself in the Bush votors or not.

 

[Townsend]

But he didn't generalize ... he just pointed out the simpletons and imbeciles!

I guess it's all a matter of if you include yourself in the Bush votors or not.

Oh...I am soo sorry, I thought he was generalizing...

Since were talking about imbeciles and simpletons let's not forget to point out all the morons, simpletons and imbeciles from Britain who work in Suzhou China.

I guess it's all a matter of if you include yourself in the American bashers or not.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Oh...I am soo sorry, I thought he was generalizing...

Since were talking about imbeciles and simpletons let's not forget to point out all the morons, simpletons and imbeciles from Britain who work in Suzhou China.

I guess it's all a matter of if you include yourself in the American bashers or not.

No, wait ... I think I met him.

Not a bad guy but he has a penchant for spitting in your beer if he thinks you're American.

It's a shame really because he works night shift at 'the Funky Monkey' on Shizi Jie.

 

[Townsend]

No, wait ... I think I met him.

Thats crazy cause I am pretty sure I know exactly who that guy is. Imagine that, half a world away and yet we both know the same guy.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Thats crazy cause I am pretty sure I know exactly who that guy is. Imagine that, half a world away and yet we both know the same guy.

Yeah, personally, I avoid the place because he thinks my Canadian accent is just a front and just assumes I am an American pretending to be a Canadian so nobody spits in my beer.

I do wish Americans wouldn't do that.

Now, we have to flash our passports to bartenders and utter the words, "Wo shi Jianada ren." or "Je suis Canadiene" or "Ich bin ein Canader" depending on the country ... Then we all laugh and point at the guy at the end of the bar staring confuedly at the 'floater' in his beer.

 

[Townsend]

Yeah, personally, I avoid the place because he thinks my Canadian accent is just a front and just assumes I am an American pretending to be a Canadian so nobody spits in my beer.

Oh dear, it sounds like he has Multiple personality disorder...you should consider having him looked at for his own good.

 

[Skyhunter]

I kept encouraging all the French bashers to start a campaign to return the statue of Liberty. I got a lot of strange looks, but it shut them up.

 

[Smurf]

I kept encouraging all the French bashers to start a campaign to return the statue of Liberty. I got a lot of strange looks, but it shut them up.

Hehe. My reponse the first time I heard that was "Ha! Go ahead!". How much stupider can bushies get, honestly.

 

[TRCSF]

Sure, they owe the French an apology.

They owe a lot of people an apology.

Although the obvious fact that the French were right and it makes all the chickenhawk France-bashers look really, really stupid is just desserts.

 

[SOS2008]

I kept encouraging all the French bashers to start a campaign to return the statue of Liberty. I got a lot of strange looks, but it shut them up.

Here's my theory...Since the U.S. is only a little more than 200 years old, Americans have really short memories.

 

[Townsend]

Here's my theory...Since the U.S. is only a little more than 200 years old, Americans have really short memories.

What was here only a little more than 200 years ago?