Downforce, banked turns, and friction

  • Thread starter jonesto95
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Friction
In summary, aerodynamic downforce does have an impact on the maximum speed a car can take around a banked turn, and considering it in the formula would change the result.
  • #1
jonesto95
In motorsports, everyone talks about getting the greatest amount of aerodynamic downforce on a car in order to get the most speed.

However, every derivation I see for a formula regarding the maximum velocity a car can take around a banked turn, with friction, ignoring aero downforce, removes the normal force. This makes me think that aerodynamic downforce isn't important when in a banked turn, but that doesn't make sense to me at all, since it can be important on 0° and 90°+ turns.

If I were to consider downforce, would this formula change at all? And if so, what would change?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
jonesto95 said:
In motorsports, everyone talks about getting the greatest amount of aerodynamic downforce on a car in order to get the most speed.

That is only true when friction is the limiting force. Downforce and it's associated increase in drag generally reduce top speed & acceleration in a straight line.

However, every derivation I see for a formula regarding the maximum velocity a car can take around a banked turn, with friction, ignoring aero downforce, removes the normal force. This makes me think that aerodynamic downforce isn't important when in a banked turn, but that doesn't make sense to me at all, since it can be important on 0° and 90°+ turns.
If I were to consider downforce, would this formula change at all? And if so, what would change?

Yes the formula would change. Try it out and see what you get.
 
  • #3
Is this all valid? Above the line is the non-downforce variant. I can take it from here if it's good.

http://imgur.com/U1HBWYJ
 
  • #4
jonesto95 said:
In motorsports, everyone talks about getting the greatest amount of aerodynamic downforce on a car in order to get the most speed.

However, every derivation I see for a formula regarding the maximum velocity a car can take around a banked turn, with friction, ignoring aero downforce, removes the normal force. This makes me think that aerodynamic downforce isn't important when in a banked turn, but that doesn't make sense to me at all, since it can be important on 0° and 90°+ turns.

If I were to consider downforce, would this formula change at all? And if so, what would change?

The reason that normal force is removed in most derivations of the speed a car can take around a corner is that the centripetal/centrifugal (take your pick) force to go around a corner at a given speed is proportional to mass, and the normal force is also proportional to speed, so they cancel out. Downforce increases the normal force without increasing the required centripetal force, so it will not cancel out in the derivation (and, in fact, it will also make it so the mass no longer cancels out as well).
 

1. What is downforce and how does it affect a car's performance?

Downforce is the downward force created by the interaction between the car's body and the air as it moves through it. It is used to increase the grip of the tires on the track, allowing for faster speeds and better handling in corners. Downforce is essential for high-performance vehicles, particularly in racing, as it helps keep the car stable and prevents it from sliding or losing control.

2. How do banked turns work and why are they important in racing?

Banked turns are turns in a track that are sloped or angled upwards on the outer edge. This slope helps to counteract the centrifugal force that pulls the car to the outside of the turn, allowing it to maintain a higher speed and reducing the risk of sliding or spinning out. Banked turns are important in racing as they allow for faster speeds and more aggressive driving, making for a more exciting and competitive race.

3. How does friction play a role in racing and how is it managed?

Friction is the force that resists the motion of a moving object. In racing, friction is important as it helps to slow down the car and allows for better control and handling. However, too much friction can cause the car to slow down too much, hindering its performance. To manage friction, racers use specialized tires with different levels of grip and adjust the car's aerodynamics to find the right balance between speed and control.

4. Can the design of a car affect its downforce, banked turns, and friction?

Yes, the design of a car can greatly affect its performance in terms of downforce, banked turns, and friction. The shape and size of the car's body, as well as the placement of its wings and spoilers, can all impact the amount of downforce it creates. Similarly, the angle and height of a car's suspension can affect its ability to handle banked turns. And finally, the type and quality of tires and the car's aerodynamics can greatly impact the level of friction it experiences on the track.

5. How do scientists and engineers study and improve downforce, banked turns, and friction in racing?

Scientists and engineers use various techniques to study and improve these aspects of racing. This includes wind tunnel testing to analyze the aerodynamics of the car, computer simulations to fine-tune the design and performance, and track testing to gather real-world data. Additionally, advancements in technology and materials allow for the development of more efficient and effective solutions to optimize downforce, banked turns, and friction in racing.

Similar threads

Calculating Vehicle Speed based on Downforce (Aerodynamics)
    • Mechanical Engineering
Replies
8
Views
2K
Banked Turns Part II: What Force Causes a Car to Creep up a Wall
    • Mechanics
Replies
5
Views
1K
Weight Transfer in Car Tires, and Suspension
    • Mechanics
Replies
7
Views
1K
B Confusion while trying to build intuition of centripetal force
    • Mechanics
Replies
15
Views
2K
Downforce-aerodynamics-fluid dynamics *Challenge*
    • Mechanical Engineering
Replies
1
Views
1K
Active aero/active vortex generator?
    • Mechanical Engineering
Replies
1
Views
1K
I Solving Wheel Coming to a Stop: FBD, Friction & Hysteresis
    • Mechanics
Replies
22
Views
2K
I How Does Friction Function in the Movement and Turning of a Car?
    • Classical Physics
2
Replies
45
Views
973
Friction and turning angle relation
    • Mechanics
Replies
6
Views
1K
I How is static friction the centripetal force during a car turning?
    • Classical Physics
3
Replies
73
Views
6K

Hot Threads

Recent Insights

Back
Top