Drift Velocity in a Vaccum Diode

rollingstein

Gold Member
646
16
Is the standard equation for drift velocity of electrons also applicable to conduction in, say, a vacuum tube?

00d6a1a173e7d76cacefb8fc334af740.png


I assume it is, and if so what is the relation between the drift velocities at the interface of vacuum-metal at the anode of a vacuum diode? The current, electronic charge and Area remain the same so I suppose it is only the ratio of the carrier density? (Let's assume we are operating the diode in its saturation current region)

The conductor density in a metal is fixed (say, 8.5×1028 electrons per m³ for Copper) but what determines the density in the vacuum (again, in the saturation region)?

Beyond saturation, even on a bias voltage increase the current remains the same. The explanations I've read say this is because all the electrons emitted by thermionic emission have been used up. But wouldn't it be possible to increase current via an increase in their drift velocity? Wouldn't increasing voltage increase the field thereby accelerating electrons ultimately increasing drift velocities?

Why does current saturate then?
 
Last edited:

sophiecentaur

Science Advisor
Gold Member
22,930
3,598
But wouldn't it be possible to increase current via an increase in their drift velocity? Wouldn't increasing voltage increase the field thereby accelerating electrons ultimately increasing drift velocities?
That argument doesn't work. If the cathode can only produce a certain number of electrons per second, that is the limit to the current. Making them go faster will (after the steady sate has been reached) just mean they hit the anode with higher energy (i.e. more Power in and out)
 

rollingstein

Gold Member
646
16
That argument doesn't work. If the cathode can only produce a certain number of electrons per second, that is the limit to the current. Making them go faster will (after the steady sate has been reached) just mean they hit the anode with higher energy (i.e. more Power in and out)
Thanks! But how does that tie in with this equation?

00d6a1a173e7d76cacefb8fc334af740.png


The current seems proportional to velocity?

Higher energy, like you said they would have, is Kinetic Energy, I assume? If so the velocity increases? Increasing current by the equation above? What gives?

Of course, experiment tells you are right, I'm only trying to round off my understanding!
 

rollingstein

Gold Member
646
16
I do see what you mean though. In a I = Q/t sense if the Q/t reaches its limit I cannot increase any more.

I just cannot see the consistency with the drift velocity equation.
 

sophiecentaur

Science Advisor
Gold Member
22,930
3,598
Here's why. If they move faster. There is more space between them so the density goes down accordingly.
Simples.
 

rollingstein

Gold Member
646
16
Here's why. If they move faster. There is more space between them so the density goes down accordingly.
Simples.
Makes sense! Thanks.

So till the saturation point density remains fairly constant, only velocity rises? Or is it some combination of both factors.
 

rollingstein

Gold Member
646
16
Here's why. If they move faster. There is more space between them so the density goes down accordingly.
Simples.

The other mystery is why does compensation happen in a way that keeps velocity x density constant?

Otherwise current wouldn't stay saturated?
 

sophiecentaur

Science Advisor
Gold Member
22,930
3,598
Space between electrons is proportional to speed- all the time, with a lower limit set by the mutual repulsion, I guess.
 

sophiecentaur

Science Advisor
Gold Member
22,930
3,598
One of the effects we see (in microelectronic engineering) with high density ion currents in vacuum and low energy is beam "blowup" due to space charge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_charge
http://www.casetechnology.com/implanter/neutral.html
And hence the need to focus the beam in CRTs and other electron beam devices. In a diode, however, it's a bit harder to foresee what'll happen because the cathode is often along the axis of a cylindrical anode. Perhaps the electrons are 'squished' out of the ends of the cylinder due to the repulsion when low HT is used. It's been so long since I used a thermionic diode. . . .
 

rollingstein

Gold Member
646
16
And hence the need to focus the beam in CRTs and other electron beam devices. In a diode, however, it's a bit harder to foresee what'll happen because the cathode is often along the axis of a cylindrical anode. Perhaps the electrons are 'squished' out of the ends of the cylinder due to the repulsion when low HT is used. It's been so long since I used a thermionic diode. . . .
Actually, what got me thinking about this was saturation currents in the photoelectric effect.

But guess it's a similar phenomenon. Carrier depletion compensates for KE increases.
 

nsaspook

Science Advisor
879
1,084
Re: Drift Velocity in a Vacuum Diode

It's been so long since I used a thermionic diode. . . .
There are still a few tubes being used in modern process equipment. I see them mainly in High-Voltage beam supplies. http://www.glassmanhv.com/products.shtml

I still tinker with old tube amps and radios as a hobby and restore classic radios for a neighbor who has a huge collection of old sets.
 

Physics Forums Values

We Value Quality
• Topics based on mainstream science
• Proper English grammar and spelling
We Value Civility
• Positive and compassionate attitudes
• Patience while debating
We Value Productivity
• Disciplined to remain on-topic
• Recognition of own weaknesses
• Solo and co-op problem solving

Hot Threads

Top