Dual Lorentz force for classical spin-orbit interaction?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the dual Lorentz force in classical spin-orbit interactions, particularly its implications for magnetic dipoles like electrons and neutrons in electric fields. The proposed Lagrangian for an electron's movement includes a term representing the interaction between magnetic moments and electric fields, suggesting that this dual effect could significantly impact experimental outcomes involving charged particles. The conversation highlights the lack of literature on this topic, despite its potential importance in explaining atomic stability and electron trajectories in various physical systems.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Maxwell's equations and their electric and magnetic components
  • Familiarity with the Aharonov-Bohm and Aharonov-Casher effects
  • Knowledge of classical mechanics, particularly Lagrangian mechanics
  • Basic grasp of magnetic dipoles and their interactions with electric fields
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of dual Lorentz forces in classical spin-orbit interactions
  • Explore the Aharonov-Casher effect and its experimental applications
  • Investigate the stability of atomic structures under classical treatments involving magnetic moments
  • Examine simulations of electron trajectories in electric and magnetic fields
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, particularly those specializing in quantum mechanics, electromagnetism, and atomic physics, as well as experimentalists working with charged particles and their interactions.

jarekduda
Messages
82
Reaction score
5
Electric and magnetic parts of Maxwell's equations are kind of similar, so physical effects relating these properties have many 'dual' analogues - with exchanged places.
For example in Aharonov-Bohm effect, the phase of charged particle depends on side of magnetic flux tube it comes through, while in its 'dual' analogue: Aharonov-Casher, the particle has magnetic moment and tube contains line of charge (it was used e.g. for neutron or fluxon interference).
Another interesting 'dual' effect (hypothetical) can be found in [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole']magnetic monopole Wikipedia article[/URL] - full expression for Lorenz force in such case would be: \mathbf{F}=q_e\left(\mathbf{E}+\frac{\mathbf{v}}{c}\times \mathbf{B}\right)+q_m\left(\mathbf{B}- \frac{\mathbf{v}}{c}\times \mathbf{E}\right)
where q_m is magnetic charge - the last term corresponds to magnetic monopole - electric field interaction.

The question is if we should expect similar term for not only magnetic monopoles, but also for much more common: magnetic dipoles like electron or neutron ?
So imagine classical electron traveling in proton's electric field - let's change reference frame such that electron stops (for infinitesimal time) and proton is moving in also magnetic field created by quite large electron's magnetic moment - because of 3rd Newton's law, resulting Lorentz force should also work on electron ...
Here is Lagrangian for such electron's movement: \mathbf{L} = \frac{1}{2}m\mathbf{v}^2+\frac{Ze^2}{r}+\frac{Ze}{c}\left[ \mathbf{v}\cdot\left( \frac{\mu\times \mathbf{r}}{r^3}\right)\right]
where the last term would correspond to such eventual magnetic moment-electric field interaction.
Derivation: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12405967/freefall.png

While this dual Lorentz force seems important: classical analogue of spin-orbit interaction, I couldn't find any serious materials about it - have you met it anywhere?
Where it might be important? Some experiments with electrons?
What other dual effects seem important ... forgotten?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi, I have just seen your response.
Like here, it seems as a completely forgotten topic. I have recently talked with electron experimentalist and he told that he was aware of this effect, but couldn't point any source.
Such force for magnetic dipole traveling in electric field could be an essential contribution in many experiments involving electrons, neutrons (... fluxons like in Aharonov-Cahser).

One place where it seems crucial is (semi-)classical treatment of atom - this correction would make Bohr circular trajectories unstable, it classically explains why electron cannot fall into nucleus: because such Lorentz force would bend the trajectory, preventing electron from collapse.
Here is my notebook for simulations of such single electron atoms: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12405967/freefall.nb

It is interesting that zero angular momentum free falling electron bends exactly 120deg (I can show derivation, doesn't depend on physical constants!) - such electron would travel between vertices of equilateral triangles.
Surprisingly, even having zero angular momentum, this system rotates - it is allowed for complex systems, like in the falling cat problem.
For nonzero angular momentum there can appear all kind of hedgehog-like trajectories, it is an interesting question to classify the closed ones (there is supposed to be also tetraedric 109deg trajectory).
There are also possible back-scattering electron trajectories - proton is in 0:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12405967/traj.png
If it is a realistic picture, imagine a proton approaching from the right side - electron's attraction electron screens the proton-proton repulsion, what could make fusion more probable (?)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
7K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K