Magnetostatics force equation for continuous current density

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the magnetostatic force equation for continuous current densities, specifically examining the derivation of the vector potential, force, and torque as presented in Jackson's work. Participants explore the implications of integrating forces over continuous current distributions compared to point particles in electrodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the derivation of the magnetostatic force equation as a continuum generalization of the point particle Lorentz force equation, questioning how a force can be applied over all space rather than at a single point.
  • Another participant suggests that the total forces are computed on all currents and magnetic moments distributed over space, indicating this approach may seem strange but is reasonable for localized currents.
  • A third participant reiterates the idea that while the concept may appear strange, it is justified in the context of localized currents.
  • One participant argues that point particles are problematic within a continuum theory, referencing the relativistic notation for charge and current density and connecting it to Noether's theorem and the force law.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of forces in continuous versus point particle frameworks, with some finding the continuum approach reasonable while others highlight the complications introduced by point particles. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on the limitations of applying point particle concepts within a continuum framework and the assumptions involved in defining forces over distributed current densities.

Peeter
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In Jackson, the following equations for the vector potential, magnetostatic force and torque are derived##\mathbf{m} = \frac{1}{{2}} \int \mathbf{x}' \times \mathbf{J}(\mathbf{x}') d^3 x'##

##\mathbf{A} = \frac{\mu_0}{4\pi} \frac{\mathbf{m} \times \mathbf{x}}{\left\lvert {\mathbf{x}} \right\rvert^3}##

##\mathbf{F} = \boldsymbol{\nabla}( \mathbf{m} \cdot \mathbf{B} ),##

##\mathbf{N} = \mathbf{m} \times \mathbf{B},##

where $$\mathbf{B}$$ is an applied external magnetic field and $$\mathbf{m}$$ is the magnetic dipole for the current in question.

These all follow from an analysis of localized current densities $$\mathbf{J}$$, evaluated far enough away from the current sources. I worked through the vector potential results, and made sense of his derivation (lots of sneaky tricks are required). I've also done the same for the force and torque derivations. While I now understand the mathematical steps he uses, there's a detail about the starting point of his derivation, where he writes

##\mathbf{F} = \int \mathbf{J}(\mathbf{x}) \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{x}) d^3 x##

This is clearly the continuum generalization of the point particle Lorentz force equation, which for zero electric field is

##\mathbf{F} = q \mathbf{v} \times \mathbf{B}##

For the point particle, this is the force on the particle when it is in the external magnetic field. i.e. this is the force at the position of the particle.

However, for the continuum Force equation, it integrates over all space. How can we have a force that is applied to all space, as opposed to a force applied at a single point, or across a surface?
 
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I think the answer is you are computing the total forces on all currents and/or all magnetic moments and these currents and magnetic moments are distributed over all space.
 
Charles Link said:
I think the answer is you are computing the total forces on all currents and/or all magnetic moments and these currents and magnetic moments are distributed over all space.

That seems a bit strange in general, but in the special case of localized currents seems like a reasonable thing to calculate.
 
It's not strange. To the contrary, what's strange and in fact makes a lot of trouble, are point particles in electrodynamics. They are the strangers in a continuum theory. This becomes clear from the fact that a single-point charge's charge and current density are given by (in relativistic notation)
$$j^{\mu}(x)=\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \mathrm{d} \tau q \frac{\mathrm{d} y^{\mu}(\tau)}{\mathrm{d} \tau} \delta^{(4)}[x-\vec{y}(\tau)].$$
The "force law" follows from Noether's theorem applied to the Lagrangian of interacting charge-current distributions.
 

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