Dynamics (mechanics) and virtual work

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the principles of dynamics, specifically the relationship between Newton's laws and the principle of virtual work. Participants explore the implications of virtual work in both static and dynamic contexts, examining its utility in mechanics and its relationship to constraints in systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the terminology of equations related to forces and torques, suggesting they may be referred to as Newton-Euler equations.
  • Another participant explains that the principle of virtual work is a restatement of static equilibrium, emphasizing its role in transitioning from Newton's laws to Lagrange's equations.
  • There is a discussion about the trivial nature of virtual work when considering systems without constraints, where the resultant forces are zero.
  • Participants note that when constraints are present, the virtual displacements are not independent, leading to a more complex relationship involving applied and constraint forces.
  • Some participants argue that while conclusions drawn from virtual work can also be derived from Newton's laws, using virtual work simplifies the problem by focusing only on external forces.
  • There is a contention regarding the role of friction as a constraint force, with participants noting that it can do work in certain situations, which complicates the application of virtual work.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the utility and implications of virtual work compared to Newton's laws. While some see virtual work as a simplification, others raise concerns about its limitations, particularly regarding constraint forces like friction. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the full implications of virtual work in dynamic systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the principle of virtual work is particularly relevant for rigid constraints and that the compatibility of virtual displacements with constraint forces is crucial for its application. There are unresolved questions about the conditions under which friction does work and how this affects the use of virtual work.

luis20
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Hi everyone, I'm studying applied dynamics for college.

I have a simple question and then a more importante question:

F=dq/dt=ma
(torque)T=dL/dt

What do you call these equations, Newton-euler equations?
I use these equations all the time to relate forces and torques with motion, in certain mechanisms.

But suddenly, the principle of virtual work appears.
I think that virtual work is nothing more than a deduction of the previous equations, where we do F-ma=0 and T-dL/dt=0 and multiply by any displacement, since 0*displacement=0.
I heard that virtual work is used a lot! But I can't get it, what does virtual work bring new?

Another question of curiosity, virtual work was used at the beginning for static or dynamic?

Thanks a lot for the answers
 
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Luis, I agree with you, the discussion given in most mechanics texts makes a mystery out of virtual work. It's usually skimmed over quickly, and it seems so obvious, why would anyone make a deal about it? Because in addition to being useful in its own right, it's a stepping stone on the path from Newton's laws of motion to Lagrange's equations.

The principle of virtual work is basically a restatement of static equilibrium. We know the condition is that the resultant force on each particle is zero: Ri = 0. So first we just add them all together and get this: δW = ∑ Ri·δri = 0 where δri are arbitrary virtual displacements. As you point out, this is trivial, adding up a bunch of zeroes to get zero.

Things get more interesting however if the system is subject to constraints, because then the displacements δri are not all independent. What to do in that case? Answer: we split the forces into applied forces Fa and constraint forces Fc: Ri = Fai + Fci. If we only allow virtual displacements that are compatible with the constraints, the constraining forces can't do any work: ∑ Fci·δri = 0. What we are left with is a relationship that involves just the applied forces, ∑ Fai·δri = 0. This is the Principle of Virtual Work.

Still looks almost the same, so why is it important? Because it's the way to state the equilibrium condition for a system with constraints. Since the δri are not independent, it is no longer true that the forces Fai are separately zero.
 
Thanks for the explanation!

I didn't understand your last paragraph. What you mean with equilibrium condition?

Anyway, everything we can conclude with virtual work, we can also conclude with Newton's laws right? So it just may be easier to use virtual work if, as you said, the virtual displacement is compatible with some of the constraint forces.

But friction, if it is a constraint force, does work in some situations...
 
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everything we can conclude with virtual work, we can also conclude with Newton's laws right?
Doing it with Newton's Laws requires you to calculate all the forces including the constraint forces. Whereas doing it with virtual work you only need to deal with the external forces, so you've reduced the size of the problem.
But friction, if it is a constraint force, does work in some situations...
Yes, this method only works for rigid constraints.
I didn't understand your last paragraph. What you mean with equilibrium condition?
Virtual work is an expression of static equilibrium - nothing moves.
 
Bill_K said:
Doing it with Newton's Laws requires you to calculate all the forces including the constraint forces. Whereas doing it with virtual work you only need to deal with the external forces, so you've reduced the size of the problem.

Right. Yet, we can apply virtual displacements not compatible with some of constraint forces, so they will "do work" in that case right, even though they are rigid constraints?

Like a block attached to the floor and I apply a δy, so all goes up (in this case wouldn't be useful :)
 

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