Effect of Phase Lead Compensator on Phase and Gain margins

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of adding a Phase Lead Controller/Compensator on the phase and gain margins of a control system. Participants explore theoretical implications, practical applications, and specific examples related to stability margins in control systems.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that stability margins are generally increased with the addition of a Phase Lead Controller, but express uncertainty about the underlying reasons.
  • There is a request for a Bode plot comparison of the system with and without the controller to visualize the effects on phase and gain margins.
  • One participant explains that Gain Margin refers to the amount of gain that can be added before instability occurs, while Phase Margin is the difference between the phase at the 0dB crossover frequency and -180 degrees.
  • Another participant notes that if the phase crosses zero before the gain crosses zero, the system will become unstable due to positive feedback when the loop is closed.
  • It is mentioned that a good phase margin is important for real systems due to factors like component tolerances, temperature variations, noise, and changes in load.
  • A later reply states that a phase-lead compensator adds positive phase to the loop gain, which can improve margins when the loop phase is close to critical values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the effects of a Phase Lead Controller, with some agreeing on the general increase in stability margins while others seek clarification and further exploration of the concepts involved. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific mechanisms and implications of these changes.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not provided detailed mathematical analyses or specific examples of Bode plots, which may limit the depth of understanding regarding the effects of the Phase Lead Controller on phase and gain margins.

AnkleBreaker
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Homework Statement


What is the effect on the phase and gain margins of a system when a Phase Lead Controller/Compensator is added?

Homework Equations


I have designed the phase lead controller for the system so if anyone wants to see it, please ask

The Attempt at a Solution


I know, that in general, stability margins are increased, but I am unsure as to why.
 
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AnkleBreaker said:

Homework Statement


What is the effect on the phase and gain margins of a system when a Phase Lead Controller/Compensator is added?

Homework Equations


I have designed the phase lead controller for the system so if anyone wants to see it, please ask

The Attempt at a Solution


I know, that in general, stability margins are increased, but I am unsure as to why.

do you know what phase and gain margin are?
in words, not mathematically
 
donpacino said:
do you know what phase and gain margin are?
in words, not mathematically
to start, why don't you put up a bode plot of your system with and without the controller.

answer this for me. what happens when the phase crosses zero before the gain crosses zero?
 
Thank you for your reply.

donpacino said:
do you know what phase and gain margin are?
in words, not mathematically
Gain Margin is the amount of gain that can be added to the system before the system becomes unstable
Phase Margin is the difference of the phase at the 0dB crossover frequency and -180

donpacino said:
to start, why don't you put up a bode plot of your system with and without the controller.
Original:
bode_original.jpg

Modified:
bode_modified.jpg


donpacino said:
answer this for me. what happens when the phase crosses zero before the gain crosses zero?
I'm not really sure of the answer to that question
 
those look like closed loop bode plots, can you show me the open loop plots?

when the phase crosses zero before the gain crosses zero, your system will become unstable. That is due to the fact that you will get positive feedback when you close the loop. once the gain crosses zero, your system is attenuating, and you are in the green.

so your phase margin is how much margin you have in your phase before your system goes unstable. you want a good deal of phase margin in a real system for a variety of reasons.

1. component tolerances
2. temperature variations
3. noise in your system
4. changes in load.
and more!

your phase and gain margin will also effect your systems responses to changes in input.
 
AnkleBreaker said:

Homework Statement


What is the effect on the phase and gain margins of a system when a Phase Lead Controller/Compensator is added?
The answer is contained in the question: A phase-lead compensator adds a "leading" (positive) phase to the loop gain.
If you know that in case of a marginally phase margin the (negative) loop phase is too close to the critical values, it is clear that addition of a certain amount of positive phase (in the critical frequency region around the cross-over frequency) will improve the margin.
 

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