Effects of time on particles in an active synchrotron

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of time on particles traveling at relativistic speeds, specifically within the context of synchrotrons. Participants explore concepts such as time dilation, length contraction, and particle decay, with examples drawn from experimental observations and theoretical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that as particles approach the speed of light, time for those particles slows down significantly, while they perceive time normally.
  • Another participant references pion decay in the upper atmosphere, suggesting that time dilation allows pions to travel further than expected before decaying.
  • A third participant discusses muon decay, indicating that while muons have a short lifetime in their rest frame, relativistic effects extend their mean lifetime in Earth's frame, allowing many to reach sea level.
  • A participant mentions the Tevatron synchrotron and states that time in the particle's reference frame is slowed by a factor of 1044 at high energies.
  • Several participants consider whether the topic could be suitable for a bachelor thesis, with varying opinions on its feasibility and relevance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the existence of time dilation and length contraction effects for particles at relativistic speeds, but there is no consensus on the suitability of the topic for a bachelor thesis or the specific requirements for such a thesis.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the conditions under which time dilation and length contraction occur, as well as the specific parameters of particle lifetimes and distances traveled, which may not be fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and researchers in physics, particularly those focused on relativistic effects, particle physics, and experimental observations related to high-energy particles.

prankster
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hello! 1st year college physics student here.

has anyone thought of the effects of time on particles traveling 99.999999% C in a synchrotron? for as it has been explained to me, when something approaches the speed of light, time for the particle slows incredibly (but of course to the particle, time appears normal). in addition, i also understand that things traveling so fast, actually contract slightly relative to the observer.

these are a few of the effects of traveling so fast, but is there any documentation on the effects of time on particles?
 
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Yes, I think a classical example of this is pion decay in the upper atmosphere, but I am struggling to find this on Wikipedia.

The essence is that neutral pions exist for 26 nanoseconds, and that they are formed when high-energy protons hit the upper atmosphere. If they travel at close to the speed of light, you can work out they're meant to be able to travel about 26e-9 * 3e8 = 7.8 m before decaying, so we shouldn't see them in the lower atmosphere, but we do because they are so time-dilated, their lifetime becomes a lot longer so they can travel further. equivalently, to them their lifetime is the same but the distance to the surface of the Earth is greatly length-contracted, so they can reach it.

I hope this is right.
 
the decay of pions in the atmosphere creating muons. they have a life time of around 2.2 microsecs. so hardly any should reach sea level. However in Earth's reference frame their mean lifetime is nearer 35 microseconds which means they can travel around 10 000 m in Earth's reference frame
This was confirmed and around 37 million muons reach sea level
 
didnt realize mikeyW had replied =]

You can do the maths by looking at length contraction
and and the average lifetime of a muon and speed etc etc
 
Fermilab (near Chicago) has a superconducting synchrotron named the Tevatron, with a circumference of 6.282 kilometers, that has two counter-rotating beams, one with protons, and the other with anti-protons, each beam with total particle energies of 980 GeV (beta = 0.999999). Time in the particle's reference frame is slowed by a factor 1044.
Bob S
 
Do you fellows think this subject can be expanded upon a bachelor thesis?
 
prankster said:
Do you fellows think this subject can be expanded upon a bachelor thesis?
Not on what was discussed here. You are a freshman now? When is the bachelor thesis due? Do you have any suggestions?
Bob S
 
prankster said:
Do you fellows think this subject can be expanded upon a bachelor thesis?

Depends on what the requirements for a bachelor thesis at your institution. Do you even have to start thinking about one this early?
 

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