Comparing Effort and Work: Lift/Push 1kg and 2kgs, Distance of 1 vs 2 Meters

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of effort and work in the context of lifting or pushing weights over different distances. Participants explore how these concepts relate to each other and the implications of their definitions in both everyday and scientific contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how much more effort is required to lift/push 2kg compared to 1kg and whether lifting 1kg over 2 meters requires more effort than 1 meter.
  • Another participant shares experimental findings suggesting that lifting double the mass requires significantly more effort than doubling the distance with the same mass.
  • Some participants propose that if work is defined as effort, it may depend more on the force applied rather than the distance moved, which contrasts with traditional definitions of work.
  • A participant argues that effort is a biological concept not directly equivalent to work, citing an example of holding a weight without movement as requiring effort but not resulting in work done on the mass.
  • One participant offers a layman's definition of effort as the calories burned to accomplish a task, suggesting a disconnect between effort and work in many scenarios.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the correlation between effort and work, indicating a need for clarification on these concepts.
  • Several participants reference a specific textbook, "Physics for Scientists and Engineers: A Strategic Approach," noting its role in understanding the distinction between everyday and scientific definitions of work.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the relationship between effort and work, with no consensus reached. Some agree that effort and work are not equivalent, while others explore how they might relate, leading to ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the ambiguity in the definitions of effort and work, noting that traditional physics definitions may not align with everyday understandings. There is also mention of the limitations of definitions based on personal experience and physiological factors.

tydychic
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So, I want to understand the difference between effort and work applied to this situation:

A) Lift/push 1kg a distance of one meter, repeat with 2kgs. How much more effort does it take to lift/push 2kgs instead of 1kg?

B) Lift/push 1kg a distance of one meter, repeat with a distance of two meters. How much more effort does it take to lift/push 1kg two meters instead of one?

C) If work is defined as "effort," how would you say work depends on the force applied and on the distance moved.

Currently, I say A) about the same, B) double, C) dependent on distance.
Verdict? Right, wrong?

Thank you!
 
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*Update: okay, so I went and performed this experiment with a couple of biology books. It turns out that double the mass, same distance, took a lot more effort than the same mass double the distance. So, I'm thinking that if work is defined as effort, it would be dependent on force more than displacement. However, this isn't quite what the book says. So, now I'm a bit confused as to how effort and work correlate to each other.
 
tydychic said:
So, I'm thinking that if work is defined as effort, it would be dependent on force more than displacement. However, this isn't quite what the book says. So, now I'm a bit confused as to how effort and work correlate to each other.
Whoever wrote that book should be shot! :smile: "Effort" is a loosely defined biological/physiological concept that is not directly equivalent to work. For example, if I tell you to hold a heavy weight in your hands for a certain amount of time without moving, I think you'll say that it takes 'effort' but since you're not moving no work is done on the mass. (Work will be done internally, within your muscles, but that's something else.)

What book are you using? What does it say about 'effort' versus 'work'?
 
Work is force times distance. I have no idea what effort is.
 
If I had to invent a definition, I'd say "effort", as it is commonly used in layman's terms, is the number of calories you burn to accomplish a certain task (over and above your resting burn rate).

Obviously, in many situations, there is no corellation at all between "effort" and "work".
 
Wow that gave me a good laugh
 
Haha, Doc Al! I've been in the mind-set a few times before, too. :) Actually, the book is a great one: Physics for Scientists and Engineers: A Strategic Approach (Knight). The experiment I was doing was out of a parallel lab unit, and the purpose was the demonstrate to us how an everyday definition of "work," like lifting weights, is not actually work by a physicist's definition. It took blowing the experiment up from 1kg masses to big annoying bio books, but I actually got the difference--when all else fails, go bigger. :)

Thank you for your help, all of you!
 
tydychic said:
Actually, the book is a great one: Physics for Scientists and Engineers: A Strategic Approach (Knight).
That is a good book.
The experiment I was doing was out of a parallel lab unit, and the purpose was the demonstrate to us how an everyday definition of "work," like lifting weights, is not actually work by a physicist's definition.
I'm happy to hear that. :wink:
 

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