Electric Field and Electric Dipole Moment for a Dipole

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of electric fields and electric dipole moments in the context of dipoles, particularly focusing on the relationship between magnetic and electric fields in static scenarios. Participants explore the mathematical formulations and definitions related to dipoles, scalar and vector potentials, and the necessary charge distributions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the magnetic dipole moment and magnetic field equations, seeking to find the electric field and electric dipole moment for the dipole.
  • Another participant suggests that the electrostatics part must be solved independently from the magnetic field due to the decoupling of Maxwell's equations in static cases.
  • A participant questions how to derive a static scalar potential from the magnetic dipole moment to find the electric field.
  • Another participant argues that the electric field requires knowledge of the charge distribution, which is not influenced by a static magnetic dipole moment.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between electric fields and potentials, with one participant asserting that the electric field is a function of the scalar and vector potentials.
  • One participant expresses a dilemma regarding the formulation of the 4-scalar potential for a dipole, indicating a need for assistance in this area.
  • A participant provides a standard expression for the electrostatic dipole moment and its relation to the scalar potential.
  • Another participant defines the electrostatic dipole moment in terms of charge distribution and its mathematical representation.
  • Several participants express confusion or seek clarification on the mathematical expressions and definitions presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement, particularly regarding the relationship between electric and magnetic fields, the necessity of charge distributions, and the formulation of potentials. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on how to approach the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for complete sources to calculate the full four-potential and express uncertainty about the correct formulation of the scalar potential for a dipole. Some mathematical expressions are noted to be unclear or garbled, leading to confusion among participants.

Philosophaie
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The Magnetic Dipole Moment for a Magnetic Field for a dipole oriented on the x-y axis is:
##\bar m = |m| \hat z##
The Magnetic Field is:
##\bar B = \frac{\mhu_0}{4 * \pi * |\bar r|^5} * 3 * \bar r * (\bar m . \bar r) - \bar m * |\bar r|^2##
Vector Potential is:
##\bar A = \frac{\mhu_0}{4 * \pi * |\bar r|^3} * (\bar m X \bar r)##
How do you find the Electric Field and Electric Dipole Moment, ##\bar p## for the above dipole?

This is not a homework problem.
 
Last edited:
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Since this is obviously a static problem you have to solve the electrostatics part independently from the magnetic field since in the static case the Maxwell equations decouple in those for the electric an magnetic components.
 
How do you solve for a static scalar potential using the Magnetic Dipole Moment to then solve for the Electric Field?
 
I don't understand, what you mean. To solve for the electric field you need the charge distribution. It's unaffected by a static magnetic dipole moment.
 
Is the Electric Field not a function of the scalar and vector potential?
 
Sure, but you need the complete sources to calculate the full four-potential!
 
Calculating the 4-scalar potential, ##\phi##, is my dilemma for a dipole.

When I find the equation of 4-Scalar Potential for a dipole I can can calculate the 4-Vector Potential, ##A(\phi/c,\bar r)##.

I just need help formulating the Equation for 4-##\phi##
 
An electrostatic dipole usually is describe by a scalar potential (in Heaviside-Lorentz units)
$$\phi(\vec{x})=\frac{\vec{p} \cdot \vec{x}}{4 \pi |\vec{x}|^3},$$
and a magnetic one by a vector potential,
$$\vec{A}(\vec{x})=\frac{\vec{m} \times \vec{x}}{4 \pi |\vec{x}|^3},$$
where ##\vec{p}## is the electric and ##\vec{m}## the magnetic dipole moment of the charges, currents, and permanent magnets.
 
How do you define the Electrostatic Dipole Moment ##\bar p##. The magnitude for a Dipole would be ##|\bar p| = Q*|\bar d|## where d is the separation of poles of the positive and negative Dipole terminals. Is the direction of the Electrostatic Dipole Moment ##\hat p:\hat x=x-d/2, \hat y=0## and ##\hat z=0##?
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Definition:
$$\vec{p}=\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x} \rho(\vec{x}) \vec{x}.$$
 
  • #11
vanhees71 said:
##\vec##p=∫R3d3##\vec##x ρ(##\vec##x)\##\vec##x.
##\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3\vec x = 1 \hat x## ##0 \hat y## ##0 \hat z##
##\frac{d \rho}{dt}=-grad.\bar J##
##\vec{x}=(x-(d/2)) \hat x## ##0 \hat y## ##0 \hat z##
 
Last edited:
  • #13
Where am I going wrong?
 
  • #14
Philosophaie said:
Where am I going wrong?
I cannot read what you wrote. It's somehow garbled. I don't know, what went wrong. Are you, maybe, using the App on a mobile device?
 

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