Electromagnetic induction between 2 coils problem.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of electromagnetic induction between two coils, particularly focusing on the effects of frequency on induction, the implications of direct current (DC) versus alternating current (AC), and the relevance of propagation speed at high frequencies. Participants explore theoretical aspects and practical limitations related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a change in current and voltage in one coil can induce a current in another stationary coil, with the intensity of induction being related to frequency.
  • Others clarify that DC corresponds to a frequency of 0, which contradicts the idea of infinite frequency leading to high induction.
  • There is a discussion about the meaning of "infinite frequency" and its implications for induction, with some suggesting that it is not a meaningful concept.
  • Participants mention that at very high frequencies, new effects may arise due to the relevance of the speed of light, which could complicate the induction process.
  • One participant references Tesla's work on wireless power transmission and questions the effects that occur at extreme high frequencies.
  • Concerns are raised about the practical limitations of coil sizes and distances in relation to frequency, indicating that very large coils are impractical for low-frequency applications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between frequency and induction, particularly regarding the concept of infinite frequency and its relevance. There is no consensus on the implications of high frequencies or the practical limits of coil sizes in induction scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of considering propagation delays at high frequencies and the limitations of typical AC setups, which may not apply under extreme conditions. The discussion includes assumptions about equilibrium in AC systems and the practicalities of coil dimensions.

aditya23456
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We know that
1)a change in current and voltage in a coil may result in induction in other stationary coil..this induction is directly related to frequency..ie The higher the frequency the more intense the induction effect.
2)we also know that there is no induction in case of DC current flow..
considering frequency to be infinite,we have a DC current flow and at same time we need to observe very high induction as per (1)..therefore where am I wrong.??
 
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DC corresponds to a frequency of 0, not an "infinite frequency".

The higher the frequency the more intense the induction effect.
Depends on the setup and the definition of "intense".
 
then what does frequency tending to infinite correspond to..? Is it anything which is not defined..
Intense defined as magnitude of field induced
 
I don't think there is a meaningful way to describe something as "infinite frequency". You can look how induction works for very high frequencies, but not for an infinite frequeny. In addition, you get many new effects if the speed of light becomes relevant.
 
really thanks for info..I was reading abt telsa's wireless power transmission where i came across this..He used high frequency alternator for his tesla coil..I was wondering extreme case of this high frequency..I dint understand your last statement..did you mean speed of light relevant to frequency resulting in negligible wavelength..??what effects take place..?
 
In usual AC setups, you can assume that everything is in an equilibrium - the changes of current and voltage are small within the time electromagnetic fields need to propagate through your setup (about 1 nanosecond for 30cm, the speed of light). If that assumption is wrong, things can get tricky. A coil with 30cm diameter is not useful to convert GHz-signals (1 nanosecond per cycle), for example.
 
eletromagnetic induction occurs via electromagentic waves...light is the visible portion
of these waves...in many common inductions, like those of small coils at 60Hz, the speed of propagation...that is, the speed of light... is immaterial...but at ultrahi frequencies and large coils or large coil separation, such time delay of propagation may have to be taken
into account.
all this is what mfb is taking about.
 
what are these effects basically.? These effects can be found even at low(not highly low) frequency changes,,taking the other coil to be far enough..isn't it.?? Then we can find these effects to a coil near you,getting effected from some other inducing coil which is far enough for frequency to be comparible to time of propagation and magnitude being high enough that it can make necessary induction
 
You cannot build a transformer with a size of ~5000km (for 50 or 60 Hz). Everything beyond ~10m is impractical, and that corresponds to frequencies in the upper MHz range.
 
  • #10
Replying to post #8: if I understand your points, 'yes'...to them all.
 

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