Electrons: Wave & Particle Movement Explained

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    Electrons
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the movement of electrons, exploring their behavior as both particles and waves within different contexts, such as atoms and conductors. Participants examine concepts from quantum physics, including kinetic energy, wave function localization, and the effects of magnetic fields on electron motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the kinetic energy of an electron relates to the compression of its wave function, suggesting that a delocalized electron has a smaller wave and a more precise position.
  • Others argue that electrons in atoms do not move in the classical sense, although they possess kinetic energy, which is distinct from motion.
  • There is a question about whether electrons in a conductor are always in motion and how external forces influence this movement.
  • One participant raises the idea that delocalized electrons in a metal could radiate electromagnetic energy if they are moving, but this leads to questions about how they would stop moving without external forces.
  • Another participant challenges the classical view of electron movement, suggesting that electrons have a momentum distribution that interacts with magnetic fields, rather than moving in a straightforward manner.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of wave function localization and momentum spread, with some participants suggesting that a more localized electron does not necessarily imply a larger momentum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of electron movement, the relationship between wave function and kinetic energy, and the effects of magnetic fields. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the classical picture of electron behavior, particularly in relation to quantum mechanics and the effects of external forces. There are also unresolved questions regarding the definitions of motion and kinetic energy in quantum contexts.

brian.green
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What keep electrons move? I read somewhere that in q physics the kinetic energy of an electron mean how much the wave cloud is compressed. If the electron is part of an atom its wave is wide a smeared but if delocalized then its wave is small and its position much more exact.
But the electron can move/flow in a conductor. That's different moving? It has two kind of "moving"?
And this classical moving also constant, e- always move as a wave and as a particle too?
 
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electron always move?
No. As an example, electrons in an atom do not move (with a few irrelevant exceptions). They have a kinetic energy, but this is nothing like motion in the classical sense.
But if they move, without an external force they will keep moving - what would stop them?
brian.green said:
I read somewhere that in q physics the kinetic energy of an electron mean how much the wave cloud is compressed.
That does not make sense.
brian.green said:
And this classical moving also constant, e- always move as a wave and as a particle too?
Electrons are quantum objects, they are neither wave nor particle, although those descriptions can be useful sometimes.
 
mfb said:
But if they move, without an external force they will keep moving - what would stop them?

If we have a piece of metal, there is delocalized electrons on its surface. These electrons are moving or not? If moving then radiating EM energy and loose kinetic energy, finally stop moving. This would stop them.
But if not move how can the changing magnetic field accelerate them? So called circular current induced but how? They are rest and cannot sense magnetic force.

And there is the explanation (first answer) of electron wave compression and quantum kinetic energy what I said:
https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1195
 
Last edited:
brian.green said:
If we have a piece of metal, there is delocalized electrons on its surface.
Not only there.
brian.green said:
These electrons are moving or not?
They can, it depends on the setup.
brian.green said:
If moving then radiating EM energy
Not if they move in a straight line, neglecting collisions with defects.
brian.green said:
But if not move how can the changing magnetic field accelerate them? So called circular current induced but how? They are rest and cannot sense magnetic force.
The classical picture doesn't work well here. They have a momentum distribution, and the magnetic field acts on this distribution.
brian.green said:
nd there is the explanation (first answer) of electron wave compression and quantum kinetic energy what I said:
That is not what you said. A more localized electron has a larger spread in momentum, it does not need to have a larger momentum. Turning that around makes it even worse, because a large momentum or even a large spread in momentum tells us nothing about the localization in space.
 

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