Energy dissipated by air resistance through integration

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving quadratic drag and energy dissipation when a ball is thrown upwards. The original poster seeks to find the energy dissipated due to air resistance, represented by the force 'av²', while the ball ascends to its maximum height 'h'. The context includes the application of integration to determine the work done against this resistive force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss various methods to integrate the force 'av²' with respect to displacement. There are attempts to express velocity as a function of time or displacement, and some participants suggest using integration techniques such as integration by parts or trigonometric identities. The original poster expresses confusion about how to properly set up the integral for energy dissipation.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants offering different perspectives on how to approach the integral. Some guidance has been provided regarding the relationship between energy and work done by drag, but there is no consensus on the specific integration method to be used. The original poster remains focused on understanding how to integrate the resistive force effectively.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted emphasis on not needing to find the maximum height 'h' directly, as the original poster is primarily interested in the energy dissipation aspect through integration. The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of the drag force and its impact on energy calculations.

yoghurt54
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Homework Statement


Hey guys, I'm doing a problem on quadratic drag and energy dissipation. Basically, the question asks me to find the energy dissipated when a ball of mass 'm' is thrown directly upwards with a velocity 'v0', during the upwards journey to its maximum height, 'h'. The resistive force is 'av2'. Now, whether or not it is relevant to answering the question (I think it is), I believe I need to find the integral of
'av2' with respect to the displacement upwards, 'x'.


Homework Equations



I've derived the equation taking upwards as x-positive:

F = mvdv/dx = -mg -av2

ignoring any '-' signs,

E=∫ F dx = ∫( -mg -av2 )dx between x=0 and x=h

The Attempt at a Solution



Now obviously the energy has to equal 1/2*m*v02 due to the conservation of energy.

And this can be easily shown by integrating the RHS - mvdv/dx.

But when I get to the av2, I tried substituting v=dx/dt, which doesn't make it any clearer.

I tried to do integration by parts, getting the av2 part to be axv2 - ∫2axvdv/dx dx.

Any ideas? Perhaps a knowledge of multi-variable calculus is needed?


EDIT: Thanks for your ideas guys, but I *DON'T* need to find the height 'h' (which is what people are offering suggestions about). Essentially, I'd like to know how to do ∫av2 dx, with v being dx/dt:

i.e. how do you find ∫ (dx/dt)2 dx ?
 
Last edited:
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You're on the right track--one can use trig identities like found http://www.physics.udel.edu/~szalewic/teach/419/cm08ln_quad-drag.pdf" or break it down by parts where the denominators are a-v and a+v.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
denverdoc said:
You're on the right track--one can use trig identities like found http://www.physics.udel.edu/~szalewic/teach/419/cm08ln_quad-drag.pdf" or break it down by parts where the denominators are a-v and a+v.

Cheers for the reply!

Sorry, but are you suggesting finding v as a function of t? Or are you saying I should find v as a function of x? I've done the latter, it's helped me find the maximum height, but not much else for the energy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I was just suggesting a way to find the integral; the solution to your problem if I'm understanding it correctly only requires equating the difference in energy initially less that of potential with the dissipative force of drag. We don't need to take into account whether the retarding force is quadratic or linear. Now to know what the final height is will require integration.
 
BTW, what I was suggesting was setting up the integral in the form of -1/(1+A*V(t)^2)

as a sum of -1/2 (1/(1+jaV(t))-1/2(1/(1-jaV(t) where a is the sqrt of A and j is sqrt(-1).

Certainly there are other ways to do this including integration by parts and various trig functions. Your call, any way you integrate the function twice, first to get v(t), then x(t) and using initial and final conditions should end up with something like:

h=m/2k*[ln((mg + kVi^2)/mg)

Another approach is just to use an integral table for int(-1/(1+ax^2) the first integral is the inverse tangent and the integral of that is ln.
 
Ok, thanks for your help denverdoc! I'll give it another shot.
 
It is easy to integrate your equation

[tex]mvdv/dx = -mg -av^2[/tex]

by separating the variables v and x.

[tex]\int_{v_0}^0{\frac{vdv}{mg/a+v^2}}= -\frac{a}{m}\int_0^h{dx}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{1}{2}\ln{\frac{mg/a}{mg/a+v_0^2}= -\frac{ah}{m}[/tex]

[tex]h=\frac{m}{2a}\ln(1+\frac{v_0^2*a}{mg})[/tex]

ehild
 
Thanks a bunch ehild, but that's not what I wanted. It's pretty trivial to get the height by doing what both you (and I) have done, what I need is a way to determine the ENERGY through integration. This means that I have to integrate the LHS wrt x, which is what I am (still!) stuck on.
 
If you integral between v0 and v(x) on the left side and between 0 and x on the right side, you can get the function v^2(x). It contains a constant term and an exponential function, easy to integrate.

[tex] \int_{v_0}^{v(x)}{\frac{vdv}{mg/a+v^2}}= -\frac{a}{m}\int_0^x{dx}[/tex]

[tex] \frac{1}{2}\ln{\frac{mg/a+v(x)^2}{mg/a+v_0^2}= -\frac{ax}{m}[/tex]

[tex]v(x)^2=-mg+(mg+a*v_0^2)\exp(-2ax/m)[/tex]

[tex]W=-a\int_0^h{v(x)^2}dx[/tex]


But you need not do this: As Denverdoc pointed out: the change of the mechanical energy is equal to the work of drag:

[tex]W=mgh- 1/2 mv_0^2[/tex].

ehild
 

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