Energy Storage & Mass Change: Is There a Link?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between energy storage or production and mass change, exploring whether every instance of energy storage is associated with a corresponding change in mass. The scope includes theoretical considerations and experimental observations related to mechanical systems, such as springs and batteries.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that energy storage or production is always associated with a change in mass, citing examples like compressed springs and charged batteries.
  • One participant suggests that the mass of a compressed spring increases due to the additional energy stored in the system.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the validity of these claims and seeks confirmation regarding the relationship between energy and mass.
  • A participant describes an experiment involving two identical springs in a sulfuric acid solution to investigate differences in behavior based on energy storage.
  • It is mentioned that while a compressed spring has more energy, the mechanism of energy storage differs from that of a battery, as it involves mechanical stress rather than charge transfer.
  • Participants note that the increase in mass due to stored energy is minuscule, but still present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between energy storage and mass change, with some supporting the idea that all energy storage involves mass change, while others seek clarification and express uncertainty about the claims made.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate confusion regarding the implications of energy storage on mass and the specific mechanisms involved, highlighting the need for further clarification on these points.

I_am_learning
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I mean to ask is every Energy storage or production associated with mass change?
 
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The mass of the spring will increase when compressed as the system contains MORE energy.

And yes every energy storage/change will have an associated effect on mass.
 


Edit My post has confused me now. Can someone please confirm is jacksnap is right. It would mean my original thinking is good and my later later confused thinking is wrong.
 
Last edited:


bm0p700f has confused me. I need clarification please!
 


I think jacksnap is correct. I have seen the following experiment. Get two identical springs. Compress one and tie it up with string, and attach one end of a copper wire to each spring. Put both in a mild sulfuric acid solution (maybe 1N). Is the action of the acid on the two springs different (bubbles, etc.). Why?
 


LOL, now I need clarification,

I was always under the impression that the more energy a system has, the more mass it has. (although only very very slightly)

ie, a charged battery has more mass then one with no charge, so i assumed it was the same for a compressed spring.
 


Yes, the compressed spring has more energy. But it is unlike a battery, because no charge transfer is required. The extra energy is in the displacement of individual atoms from their minimum energy state (mechanical stress). In terms of mass of the spring; the extra stored energy has to increase the mass of the spring by a minscule amount.
 


Understood this. Thanks everybody. Don't like to loose mass my spending more energy by typing, so bye!
 

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