- #31
swmelon
- 6
- 0
Hey, congrats to those who received admission offers.
I am a EngSci (Nano Option) who's about to graduate (unless I failed my last exams…j/k
). I can tell you that many things people mentioned about the Engineering Science program are quite true. Allow me to add a few more comments and elaborate on a few things here.
You get to choose your specialization later after 2nd year - this would be a great thing if you have lots of interests in all sorts of areas and you don't want to choose your major yet. You will be taking courses from various areas where many of them are taught by professors who are active in their own fields – they try to teach you to have the solid fundamentals and appreciation for all these subjects. By the end of your 2nd yr, you will have better feel which areas you really like and you are good at (+highly interdisciplinary background). However, if you know what major you want now and it's especially something traditional (Elec, CS, Civ, Mech, Chem, pure physics (not applied/engineering), etc.), Engineering Science may not be best suited for you. The curriculum is not so focused and it's hard to learn in depth in any of the areas till after 2nd year. And you may need some time to catch up later on to reach the same kind of level as students of other programs of the same year. This may be immediately apparent in 3rd yr as you share your 3rd yr classes with non-EngSci students. Even if you are interested one of the "unique" options (Biomed, Aero, Nano etc.), it's similar story. For example, if you choose Aero, some of the things learned in 1st and 2nd yr such as quantum mechanics and biomedical engineering wouldn't be so useful, and time would have been better spent by taking more relevant courses. Make sure you know what you will be learning by checking out their curriculum – it slightly changes from year to year.
Let me elaborate on the difficulty of the program. Chance is that you will enter the program with your high school grades in 90s. In your 1st year, your average will likely drop to 70s - that's even after bell curving and this kind of average will continue in 2nd yr and so on. Now, this sounds tough. But by constantly challenging yourself and pushing the boundaries in order to survive, you should be able earn tremendous amount of soft skills such as time-management, team work (from study groups/group projects), how to work under pressure and motivate yourself, etc. Expect a few all nighters and shower-less days and trashing your design project that never worked. But finding out (early) that doing an assignment can actually take you longer than 10 mins is something worthwhile.
About the reputation of the program, in Canada, it's very well recognized as one of the top engineering programs. It should be definitely advantageous when you apply for jobs (including summer research jobs) and grad schools in Canada. However, outside Canada, it is not always well known and you can't always rely on its reputation. Still, University of Toronto itself does have its worldwide reputation and Canadian universities in general seem to be known for more rigorous undergraduate education than most of US schools. But then, my feeling is that the reputation of place where you got undergraduate degree from wouldn’t matter much as you advance further in your career. (Industry will value your work experience most and academia will value your postgraduate works more)
In terms of student demographics (not exactly sure why people are interested in this), it is as diverse as the city of Toronto itself. I think many of them are Canadian citizen or permanent resident though. The largest number of undergrad international students at UofT (not engineering) is from US, followed by China.
Places dedicated for EngScis - well we do have a nice conference room (for study and student group meetings) and computer room that are recently renovated and located at a place near most of enigeering classrooms.
My piece of advice is that wherever you decide to go, make best out of the learning opportunities and prepare yourself well for the next level. What you learn in university will go long way in your life than your grades. You can’t just seat back and expect your “prestigious” program will provide all the top-quality education and get you the jobs for you. Be actively engaged in your education – ask questions, read outside lectures, form study groups etc. (also, remember how much tuition you are paying) And think ahead and plan early for your summer break (4 mth of summer can get really boring) and life after graduation.
I know a friend (was in physics option) who didn't enjoy the EngSci program much and switched to art&science physics program at the end of 3rd year(!). But he knew what he was doing and ended up very fine – he is going to work with a Nobel laureate in experimental physics at a top physics grad school next year. So I guess a lot depend on you.
Aerospace is actually a popular option in EngSci program compared to physics, nano, manu, and infra. Many of my aero friends seem to be doing okay and happy with the program so I can’t express much concern about the program. One annoying thing may be the Aerospace department (UTIAS) is near Downsview airport (~30 min) away from downtown campus so you may have to travel there often while working on your 4th year thesis project. In terms of job prospect, I think there are less jobs available in aero compared to Biomeds, and Elec. I heard Biomed got very good prospects in terms of opportunity and money and many people enter EngSci to specialize in that option.
Oh, forgot to mention one important thing – if you don’t like any of the options you can create your own option and take any of Engineering/Art&Science courses in your upper years as long as you know what you’re doing and it meets the accreditation criteria set by the professional engineering board. Within your option you can also take courses that are not part of your upper year curriculum if you are able to get an approval from the option chair which is usually easy (and meet the accreditation criteria, of course).
I am a EngSci (Nano Option) who's about to graduate (unless I failed my last exams…j/k
). I can tell you that many things people mentioned about the Engineering Science program are quite true. Allow me to add a few more comments and elaborate on a few things here. You get to choose your specialization later after 2nd year - this would be a great thing if you have lots of interests in all sorts of areas and you don't want to choose your major yet. You will be taking courses from various areas where many of them are taught by professors who are active in their own fields – they try to teach you to have the solid fundamentals and appreciation for all these subjects. By the end of your 2nd yr, you will have better feel which areas you really like and you are good at (+highly interdisciplinary background). However, if you know what major you want now and it's especially something traditional (Elec, CS, Civ, Mech, Chem, pure physics (not applied/engineering), etc.), Engineering Science may not be best suited for you. The curriculum is not so focused and it's hard to learn in depth in any of the areas till after 2nd year. And you may need some time to catch up later on to reach the same kind of level as students of other programs of the same year. This may be immediately apparent in 3rd yr as you share your 3rd yr classes with non-EngSci students. Even if you are interested one of the "unique" options (Biomed, Aero, Nano etc.), it's similar story. For example, if you choose Aero, some of the things learned in 1st and 2nd yr such as quantum mechanics and biomedical engineering wouldn't be so useful, and time would have been better spent by taking more relevant courses. Make sure you know what you will be learning by checking out their curriculum – it slightly changes from year to year.
Let me elaborate on the difficulty of the program. Chance is that you will enter the program with your high school grades in 90s. In your 1st year, your average will likely drop to 70s - that's even after bell curving and this kind of average will continue in 2nd yr and so on. Now, this sounds tough. But by constantly challenging yourself and pushing the boundaries in order to survive, you should be able earn tremendous amount of soft skills such as time-management, team work (from study groups/group projects), how to work under pressure and motivate yourself, etc. Expect a few all nighters and shower-less days and trashing your design project that never worked. But finding out (early) that doing an assignment can actually take you longer than 10 mins is something worthwhile.
About the reputation of the program, in Canada, it's very well recognized as one of the top engineering programs. It should be definitely advantageous when you apply for jobs (including summer research jobs) and grad schools in Canada. However, outside Canada, it is not always well known and you can't always rely on its reputation. Still, University of Toronto itself does have its worldwide reputation and Canadian universities in general seem to be known for more rigorous undergraduate education than most of US schools. But then, my feeling is that the reputation of place where you got undergraduate degree from wouldn’t matter much as you advance further in your career. (Industry will value your work experience most and academia will value your postgraduate works more)
In terms of student demographics (not exactly sure why people are interested in this), it is as diverse as the city of Toronto itself. I think many of them are Canadian citizen or permanent resident though. The largest number of undergrad international students at UofT (not engineering) is from US, followed by China.
Places dedicated for EngScis - well we do have a nice conference room (for study and student group meetings) and computer room that are recently renovated and located at a place near most of enigeering classrooms.
My piece of advice is that wherever you decide to go, make best out of the learning opportunities and prepare yourself well for the next level. What you learn in university will go long way in your life than your grades. You can’t just seat back and expect your “prestigious” program will provide all the top-quality education and get you the jobs for you. Be actively engaged in your education – ask questions, read outside lectures, form study groups etc. (also, remember how much tuition you are paying) And think ahead and plan early for your summer break (4 mth of summer can get really boring) and life after graduation.
I know a friend (was in physics option) who didn't enjoy the EngSci program much and switched to art&science physics program at the end of 3rd year(!). But he knew what he was doing and ended up very fine – he is going to work with a Nobel laureate in experimental physics at a top physics grad school next year. So I guess a lot depend on you.
UTENG said:
Aerospace is actually a popular option in EngSci program compared to physics, nano, manu, and infra. Many of my aero friends seem to be doing okay and happy with the program so I can’t express much concern about the program. One annoying thing may be the Aerospace department (UTIAS) is near Downsview airport (~30 min) away from downtown campus so you may have to travel there often while working on your 4th year thesis project. In terms of job prospect, I think there are less jobs available in aero compared to Biomeds, and Elec. I heard Biomed got very good prospects in terms of opportunity and money and many people enter EngSci to specialize in that option.
Oh, forgot to mention one important thing – if you don’t like any of the options you can create your own option and take any of Engineering/Art&Science courses in your upper years as long as you know what you’re doing and it meets the accreditation criteria set by the professional engineering board. Within your option you can also take courses that are not part of your upper year curriculum if you are able to get an approval from the option chair which is usually easy (and meet the accreditation criteria, of course).