• Support PF! Buy your school textbooks, materials and every day products Here!

Engineering Science at U of Toronto

  • Thread starter UTENG
  • Start date
  • #26
16
0
I have a question about this program as well.
Right now, I am debating between EngSci or Math&CS at the University of Toronto.
My plan is to go to engsci and transfer out to math in second year, because I am pretty sure that I won't like it.
However, I want to give it a try for the learning experience and such.

My question is whether the math and computer science that we'd do in EngSci is adequate to do a Math specialist starting in second year.
I'd say its adequate,
take a look at engsci first year curriculem and math specialist curriculem online,
theyre pretty much the same (but Engsci covering more subjects). Engsci math is theory based, so it is suitable for math majors.

Although I would suggest that you go straight into math for the Analysis! course that U of T offers. That course is rigorously proof and challenging problems oriented, and you will be taking it with math geniuses. The course code escapes me, and I may not even be correct in its name. But look into it, such course exists.

Ofcourse, if you dont feel the need, you can have a taste of EngSci. I am already guessing that youre trying that route so you can brag about how you got in to EngSci :P
 
  • #27
4
0
Well, EngSci's not actually that hard to get into. I am going that route because its a smaller faculty and the EngSci kids are spoiled with tons of resources and money so I think that that will make the transition from HS easier. I don't want to be lost in the crowd at the Uft Faculty of Arts&Science. Probably a stupid reason, but it makes sense to me. As well, I might like engineering, you never know.

The Analysis course is the main reason that I don't want to go into EngSci. Although a class with a whole bunch an math geniuses is kind of daunting...
 
  • #28
16
0
Well, EngSci's not actually that hard to get into. I am going that route because its a smaller faculty and the EngSci kids are spoiled with tons of resources and money so I think that that will make the transition from HS easier. I don't want to be lost in the crowd at the Uft Faculty of Arts&Science. Probably a stupid reason, but it makes sense to me. As well, I might like engineering, you never know.

The Analysis course is the main reason that I don't want to go into EngSci. Although a class with a whole bunch an math geniuses is kind of daunting...
engsci has 300 feshmen,
math has something like 20
As far as classes go, you'll feel more cozy in math
I know what you're thinking, you will have big classes when you have electives, but your specialist courses will be small, especially because its math.
And in EngSci, you will be friends with engsci's. If you are going to go into maths later, you'd rather make friends with math people. Sure you can make friends in second year, but its also possible that it may not be the same.


Math is very well funded as well, dont be mistaken about that.
and Engsci is hardest undergrad to get into in U of T except maybe commerce, and its is still up and above among the competitive programs elsewhere. I dont know where youre getting that "engsci is easy to get into" from. Sure, a lot of people can get in to it no problem, but the situation is the same for every university program in Canada. And its definetly harder to get into than math.

I am not trying to convince you to a certain choice, but make sure you understand the whole situation before you make your choice. Hek, I would actually want to convince you to take engsci all the way and take their physics option if I could.

edit: one more thing, if studying with geniuses are daunting to you, you definetly don't want to go into engsci, you will find even more geniuses there. Not that you shouldn't I want to make the point that studying with geniuses is a good thing.
 
Last edited:
  • #29
4
0
Really, only 20 freshmen in math? I find that hard to believe considering utoronto is very well known for math and they are such a large school. At Waterloo they have a whole faculty filled with mathies, and its a smaller school so I assumed that there would be at least as many at Toronto. I am very intimidating by the way everyone says Uft is a cold, commuter school and it's very lonely, plus engscis have all their own councillors and buildings and stuff like that.

I don't think that EngSci is particularily easy to get into, its just easier not as hard as some of the top business programs or Health Science or something. You don't even really need a supplementary application or anything.

How is studying with geniuses a good thing?
Also, do you know if there are certain requirements for taking the analysis course, or is it open to anyone who wants to do the math specialist?

I am kind of intriuged by the design aspect of engineering, its just all the second year science courses in engsci that I really have no desire to take, but we'll see. Maybe I will change my mind and engsci will open my mind and all of a sudden I will like science.

Anyways, thx for the info.
 
  • #30
16
0
Really, only 20 freshmen in math? I find that hard to believe considering utoronto is very well known for math and they are such a large school. At Waterloo they have a whole faculty filled with mathies, and its a smaller school so I assumed that there would be at least as many at Toronto. I am very intimidating by the way everyone says Uft is a cold, commuter school and it's very lonely, plus engscis have all their own councillors and buildings and stuff like that.

How is studying with geniuses a good thing?
Also, do you know if there are certain requirements for taking the analysis course, or is it open to anyone who wants to do the math specialist?

I am kind of intriuged by the design aspect of engineering, its just all the second year science courses in engsci that I really have no desire to take, but we'll see. Maybe I will change my mind and engsci will open my mind and all of a sudden I will like science.

Anyways, thx for the info.

You know what, forget that I said there are 20 undergrads in math. I have no source to back it up. However, that info i got about 5 years ago from a math major (and he actually said 30, and that it got down to 5 in some upper year math courses so I sorta mushed up the numbers). But its definetly less than a 100. Note that non math majors can take math courses, so unless you take MAT157, your math classes will be big.

If you know howmany math major students there are in waterloo, its probably something similar in u of t. It only seem bigger because that department provides for other majors as well (actuarial, comp sci etc) and I guarantee you, its not as big as EngSci

Anyways, size matter aside, I just want you to know, its not like math majors are left out in the cold by the math department and engsci's are spoon fed every meal. If engsci's do get any special treatment it wont be too much more than math majors. And engsci's dont own a building, they share it with math/compsci/ECE in which there is a common room for each of the departments. (To think of it, I havent' seen a math common room but they do have their own library there)

I don't think that EngSci is particularily easy to get into, its just easier not as hard as some of the top business programs or Health Science or something. You don't even really need a supplementary application or anything.
My bad, I misread your remark.

How is studying with geniuses a good thing?
You wouldn't rather have classes with stupid people would you :P Well to explain,

If you hang around with geniuses, you will learn from them. If you have classes with geniuses, the professor will make sure the course has high standards

If you wish to feed off of low standards that comes out of having classes with average people, it is only a false sense of achievement.

Sure it may lower your self esteem to always compare yourself to geniuses, but it is better than growing arrogant because only people you could compare yourself against are average people, and obviously you are much better than them, giving you a false impression that you must be the smartest person on earth. And then you hit the real world and you will feel worthless.

If you can't agree with me that studying with geniuses is a good thing, I hope you can at least agree that its not a bad thing. Dont let this kind of stuff prevent you from picking a course you like is what I'm saying.


Also, do you know if there are certain requirements for taking the analysis course, or is it open to anyone who wants to do the math specialist?
Academic or aptitude requirements? No, from what I know its got no restrictions. I think you are strongly recommended to take it if you are a specialist even. And I dont even think admission to the math program is a requirement either. If its got space, anybody can take it.

Also, do you know if there are certain requirements for taking the analysis course, or is it open to anyone who wants to do the math specialist?
I am kind of intriuged by the design aspect of engineering, its just all the second year science courses in engsci that I really have no desire to take, but we'll see. Maybe I will change my mind and engsci will open my mind and all of a sudden I will like science.
What you must be looking foward to is that "Engineering Science Praxis" course that engscis have to take in first year. But its just cutting up styrofoam/wood/paper and putting together a contraception that you get to work by trial and error, and is different than real 'engineering design'. If you are interested in the "Design aspect of engineering" you'll have to continue taking engineering untill the upper years

But, you'll probably have fun taking it. If you continue to second year, it keeps on going and you'll be taking more of those course.



It looks like you want to take engsci, for whavever reason (you have good reasons). But I just dont see the point of enjoying their "councilors, design courses, good funding" for one year, and then switching out to the "under funded, cold, lonely" department of mathematics.

So I've been talking all this so you know, math probably wont be as bad as you think, why not just stick with one and go with it.

Don't like science? you'll be taking plenty science/engineering in first year engsci anyways. (biology, thermodynamics, relativity, classical mechanics,structures and materials,circuits, programming all in first year) If you can endure that, you can endure more.

Dont like the environment in the math department? if you're willing to endure it for 2nd 3rd 4th year, then you can probably endure it for the first year.

Anyways, the choice is up to you, and to tell you the truth, either choice won't ruin your life. If anything, at least if you get into engsci, you can switch out in to math, not the other way around. So there ya go, go into engsci first and see how you like it.
 
Last edited:
  • #31
6
0
Hey, congrats to those who received admission offers.
I am a EngSci (Nano Option) who's about to graduate (unless I failed my last exams…j/k:smile:). I can tell you that many things people mentioned about the Engineering Science program are quite true. Allow me to add a few more comments and elaborate on a few things here.

You get to choose your specialization later after 2nd year - this would be a great thing if you have lots of interests in all sorts of areas and you don't want to choose your major yet. You will be taking courses from various areas where many of them are taught by professors who are active in their own fields – they try to teach you to have the solid fundamentals and appreciation for all these subjects. By the end of your 2nd yr, you will have better feel which areas you really like and you are good at (+highly interdisciplinary background). However, if you know what major you want now and it's especially something traditional (Elec, CS, Civ, Mech, Chem, pure physics (not applied/engineering), etc.), Engineering Science may not be best suited for you. The curriculum is not so focused and it's hard to learn in depth in any of the areas till after 2nd year. And you may need some time to catch up later on to reach the same kind of level as students of other programs of the same year. This may be immediately apparent in 3rd yr as you share your 3rd yr classes with non-EngSci students. Even if you are interested one of the "unique" options (Biomed, Aero, Nano etc.), it's similar story. For example, if you choose Aero, some of the things learned in 1st and 2nd yr such as quantum mechanics and biomedical engineering wouldn't be so useful, and time would have been better spent by taking more relevant courses. Make sure you know what you will be learning by checking out their curriculum – it slightly changes from year to year.

Let me elaborate on the difficulty of the program. Chance is that you will enter the program with your high school grades in 90s. In your 1st year, your average will likely drop to 70s - that's even after bell curving and this kind of average will continue in 2nd yr and so on. Now, this sounds tough. But by constantly challenging yourself and pushing the boundaries in order to survive, you should be able earn tremendous amount of soft skills such as time-management, team work (from study groups/group projects), how to work under pressure and motivate yourself, etc. Expect a few all nighters and shower-less days and trashing your design project that never worked. But finding out (early) that doing an assignment can actually take you longer than 10 mins is something worthwhile.

About the reputation of the program, in Canada, it's very well recognized as one of the top engineering programs. It should be definitely advantageous when you apply for jobs (including summer research jobs) and grad schools in Canada. However, outside Canada, it is not always well known and you can't always rely on its reputation. Still, University of Toronto itself does have its worldwide reputation and Canadian universities in general seem to be known for more rigorous undergraduate education than most of US schools. But then, my feeling is that the reputation of place where you got undergraduate degree from wouldn’t matter much as you advance further in your career. (Industry will value your work experience most and academia will value your postgraduate works more)

In terms of student demographics (not exactly sure why people are interested in this), it is as diverse as the city of Toronto itself. I think many of them are Canadian citizen or permanent resident though. The largest number of undergrad international students at UofT (not engineering) is from US, followed by China.

Places dedicated for EngScis - well we do have a nice conference room (for study and student group meetings) and computer room that are recently renovated and located at a place near most of enigeering classrooms.

My piece of advice is that wherever you decide to go, make best out of the learning opportunities and prepare yourself well for the next level. What you learn in university will go long way in your life than your grades. You can’t just seat back and expect your “prestigious” program will provide all the top-quality education and get you the jobs for you. Be actively engaged in your education – ask questions, read outside lectures, form study groups etc. (also, remember how much tuition you are paying) And think ahead and plan early for your summer break (4 mth of summer can get really boring) and life after graduation.

I know a friend (was in physics option) who didn't enjoy the EngSci program much and switched to art&science physics program at the end of 3rd year(!). But he knew what he was doing and ended up very fine – he is going to work with a Nobel laureate in experimental physics at a top physics grad school next year. So I guess a lot depend on you.

Just curious, is there any reason in particular that that Aerospace option is not very popular, or is it just of lesser interest to the majority of people than the other options?
Aerospace is actually a popular option in EngSci program compared to physics, nano, manu, and infra. Many of my aero friends seem to be doing okay and happy with the program so I can’t express much concern about the program. One annoying thing may be the Aerospace department (UTIAS) is near Downsview airport (~30 min) away from downtown campus so you may have to travel there often while working on your 4th year thesis project. In terms of job prospect, I think there are less jobs available in aero compared to Biomeds, and Elec. I heard Biomed got very good prospects in terms of opportunity and money and many people enter EngSci to specialize in that option.

Oh, forgot to mention one important thing – if you don’t like any of the options you can create your own option and take any of Engineering/Art&Science courses in your upper years as long as you know what you’re doing and it meets the accreditation criteria set by the professional engineering board. Within your option you can also take courses that are not part of your upper year curriculum if you are able to get an approval from the option chair which is usually easy (and meet the accreditation criteria, of course).
 
  • #32
343
1
Hi, I want to be a theoretical physicist. I'm planning to go to grad school for theoretical physics. Which do you think is better for me, to take EngSci or Physics?

Should I/How could I double major in EngSci and Physics?

There's a special program (course) in UofT that 1st physics majors can do research, can I still take that if I'm in EngSci?
 
  • #33
179
0
Should I/How could I double major in EngSci and Physics?
Seems quite infeasible, as the EngSci course load will already take up all your time. You can count how much physics you can take through the EngSci physics option relative to a physics specialist.

There's a special program (course) in UofT that 1st physics majors can do research, can I still take that if I'm in EngSci?
I don't know, cf. http://engsci.utoronto.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=66&Itemid=99
 
  • #35
179
0
These were the PHY courses offered in Summer 2008: http://www.artsandscience.utoronto.ca/ofr/timetable/summer/phy.htm [Broken]

I'm in math not physics, so I don't know whether it is indicative of other years that no upper-year physics courses are offered in summer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #36
343
1
These were the PHY courses offered in Summer 2008: http://www.artsandscience.utoronto.ca/ofr/timetable/summer/phy.htm [Broken]

I'm in math not physics, so I don't know whether it is indicative of other years that no upper-year physics courses are offered in summer.
I'm not even sure, what's taught in 1st year physics. Can you send me a link?

I know http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/undergraduate/courses/first-year [Broken] but that doesn't help very much.

Also EngSci has to much Bio and non-physics or math subject, why would it prepare me better than just taking physics major?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Related Threads on Engineering Science at U of Toronto

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
17
Views
27K
Replies
13
Views
5K
Replies
0
Views
4K
Top