Entropy Change in Pumped Air: Increase or Decrease?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the change in entropy when air is pumped into a tire, exploring whether this process results in an increase or decrease in entropy. Participants consider various factors, including the behavior of gas molecules, heat exchange, and the implications of pressure changes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that entropy would decrease because gas molecules become closer together when air is pumped into a tire.
  • Another participant proposes that overall entropy must increase, attributing this to heat released into the atmosphere by the compressor, while suggesting a decrease in entropy inside the tire.
  • A different viewpoint posits that there is likely a gain in entropy inside the tire due to increased pressure, which is associated with increased heat, despite a decrease in the maximum number of positions available for gas molecules.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the relationship between molecular motion and entropy, noting that while molecules are more restricted, they also move faster, leading to ambiguity regarding whether this results in an increase, decrease, or neutrality in entropy.
  • Another participant suggests that an increase in the number of molecules should balance out the decrease in volume, implying a state of neutrality.
  • A later post shifts focus to consider only the conditions inside the tire, excluding heat from the compressor, and questions the entropy change from deflated to inflated states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the entropy increases or decreases when air is pumped into a tire. Multiple competing views are presented, with some arguing for an increase and others for a decrease or neutrality.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions of entropy in relation to molecular motion and pressure changes, and there are unresolved questions about the impact of heat exchange on the overall entropy change.

erjkism
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i was just wondering if the entropy increases or decreases when air is pumped into a tire. my guess is that it would decrease because the gas molecules would be closer together. am i correct?
 
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In a way, I suppose. Overall, the entropy has to increase, but that can be expressed by the heat released into the atmosphere by the compressor. I guess that it decreases inside the tire.
 
I'm guessing there's a gain in entropy inside the tire as well. Increasing the pressure is equivalent to increasing heat. On the other hand, the maximum number of positions occupiable by gas molecules has to decrease, but you aso have more gas molecules.

I'm sure this is a common question.
 
I was kind of wondering about the heat issue as well, and I really don't know what to make of it. The molecules are more restricted in their range of motion, but they move faster. I don't know whether that counts as an increase, a decrease, or neutrality. :confused:
 
Sounds like neutrality to me. In a square box, any increase in no. molecules should surely be balanced out by the decrease in volume.
 
what about just the inside of the tire. disregard the heat from the compressor, and instead consider the inside of a tire going from deflated to inflated.
 

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