Equations for a mass falling to Earth from a distance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equations governing the motion of a mass falling to Earth from a distance, considering factors such as gravitational variation with distance, air resistance, and the drag coefficient. It includes theoretical modeling, experimental determination of parameters, and potential improvements to the model.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a second order, non-linear differential equation to model the motion of a falling object, incorporating gravitational changes with distance and air resistance as a function of speed squared.
  • Another participant points out a potential inconsistency in the use of the symbol for distance and speed, suggesting that the drag coefficient also depends on speed.
  • There is a discussion about how to experimentally determine the drag coefficient, with suggestions including wind tunnel testing and numerical simulations.
  • A participant questions how the constant b relates to distance from the Earth's core and provides a formula for b in terms of fluid density and surface area.
  • Participants discuss the complexity of how b depends on speed, noting that it varies with shape and surface properties, referencing the Reynolds number.
  • There is a mention of the potential for improving the model by considering additional dimensions, though the specifics of this suggestion remain unclear.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the drag coefficient and various factors, including speed and distance from the Earth's core. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise nature of these relationships and the best methods for modeling and experimentation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence of the drag coefficient on speed and shape, as well as the assumptions made regarding air density and gravitational variation. The discussion does not resolve how to solve the proposed differential equation definitively.

shibe
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I have a question :
If we consider the change in g due to distance from the Earth core; then

y=distance from earth’s core
t=time
G=gravitation constant
M=Earth’s mass
k=GM

$$y^2(t)=\frac{k}{y(t)^2}$$

If we consider air resistive force as proportional to speed squared, then:

m=falling object mass
$$y^2(t)=\frac{k}{y(t)^2}-by’(t)^2$$

And if we go even further beyond:
Then we know that the air density changes depending on the distance of the falling object from the Earth which would affect the drag coefficient, so the constant b is a function of y.

So we have the second order, non linear differential equation :

$$y^2(t)=\frac{k}{y(t)^2}-b(y)y’(t)^2$$

So my question is,

0.) what is the precise relationship between the constant b and distance from the Earth core ?

1.) how to experimentally determine drag coefficient ?

2) how to solve the given differential equation?

3.) *HOW TO IMPROVE THE MODEL EVEN FURTHER* ?
 
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shibe said:
$$y^2(t)=\frac{k}{y(t)^2}-by(t)^2$$

You are using the symbol ##y## for both, distance and speed.

shibe said:
$$y^2(t)=\frac{k}{y(t)^2}-b(y)y(t)^2$$

##b## also depends on speed.

shibe said:
0.) what is the precise relationship between the constant b and distance from the Earth core ?

For the density you may use the International Standard Atmosphere. For the drag coefficient see 1.)

shibe said:
1.) how to experimentally determine drag coefficient ?

With a wind tunnel or with numeric simulations.

shibe said:
2) how to solve the given differential equation?

Numerically

shibe said:
3.) *HOW TO IMPROVE THE MODEL EVEN FURTHER* ?

Maybe with additional dimensions.
 
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[ thanks for the corrections and link to ISA ]

how does b depend on speed
For air resistance proportional to v^2 ,
The Eqn is $$F_R=\frac{dA}{2}v^2$$

F_R=Resistive force
d=Fluid density
A=surface area
So $$b=\frac{dA}{2}$$

Also what do you mean by add extra “dimensions”
 
shibe said:
how does b depend on speed
That's complicate and depends on shape and surface properties. Here is an example for spheres and discs:
drag-disk.jpg

(The Reynolds number is proportional to speed.)

shibe said:
Also what do you mean by add extra “dimensions”

Your equation is one-dimensional but the space we live in has three dimensions.
 
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