Equilibrium temperature of a water and ice system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on calculating the equilibrium temperature of a system containing equal masses of ice at -10ºC and water at 80ºC placed in an insulated container. Participants explore the thermal equilibrium process, including the phase change of ice melting and the implications of temperature assumptions.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a calculation for the equilibrium temperature, arriving at -2.4°C, but faces criticism regarding the validity of this result based on the melting point of ice.
  • Another participant suggests considering that some of the ice may melt, proposing that the final temperature could be 0°C.
  • Further replies challenge the initial calculation, indicating that the equations used assume complete melting of the ice, which contradicts the possibility of a final temperature below zero.
  • Participants recommend breaking the problem into stages: first analyzing temperature changes until one phase reaches the melting point, then considering the phase change, and finally any subsequent temperature changes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the correctness of the initial calculation. There are competing views on whether the final temperature can be below the melting point of ice, with some asserting that it cannot be true if the final temperature is indeed 0°C.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the phase changes and the specific heat capacities used in the calculations. The discussion highlights the complexity of thermal equilibrium in phase change scenarios.

il postino
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Homework Statement
Equal masses of ice at –10ºC and water at 80ºC are placed in an insulated container and allowed to reach thermal equilibrium. Calculate the equilibrium temperature
Relevant Equations
m.Lf
m.C.dT
Equal masses of ice at –10ºC and water at 80ºC are placed in an insulated container and allowed to reach thermal equilibrium. Calculate the equilibrium temperature
Data:
Water(ice): 37,65 J/mol.K Agua (l): 75,29 J/mol.K

## Lf = 6011 J/mol ##

I solved it this way:

## -Q_{l} = Q_{ice} ##

## m.(75,29).(80 - T) = m. (37,65).(0 +10) + m.(6011) + m.(75,29).(T - 0) ##

simplifying ##m## since they are equal masses, and solving for ##T##:

## T = - 2,4 °C ##

My teacher's response was:
"The result contradicts the procedure since it calculates the heat absorbed by the ice to become superheated liquid but the obtained temperature is below the melting point"

I don't realize what I have done wrong.
Can you give me help?
Thank you!
 
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Have you considered the possibility that some of the ice will melt (but not all), and that the final temperature of the ice and water will be 0 C?
 
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Chestermiller said:
Have you considered the possibility that some of the ice will melt (but not all), and that the final temperature of the ice and water will be 0 C?

Yes, I have considered it.
But does that mean the result is wrong?
 
il postino said:
Yes, I have considered it.
What was your assessment when you considered this?
But does that mean the result is wrong?
Well, if the final temperature is 0 C, then yes, the result is wrong. There is only one final state.
 
il postino said:
Yes, I have considered it.
But does that mean the result is wrong?
It doesn't seem like you considered it. Your equations assume that the ice fully melted (which cannot be true if you think the final temperature is below zero).

It may be helpful to break the problem up into stages. First consider the temperature changes until one phase reaches the melting point, and then consider the phase change, then any temperature change occurring after the phase change (if necessary).
 
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