Error computing total derivative

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the total derivative dz/dt for the function z = x^2 - 8xy - y^3, where x and y are expressed in terms of a parameter t. Participants are seeking assistance in identifying errors in their calculations and understanding the application of the total derivative in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Participants express confusion over their calculations of the total derivative, specifically in the application of the chain rule and the correct substitution of derivatives.
  • One participant outlines their steps and arrives at an expression for dz/dt but believes it to be incorrect compared to a provided answer.
  • Another participant suggests that terms may have been omitted in the application of the chain rule, indicating a potential source of error in the calculations.
  • There is mention of using the formula \frac{dz}{dt} = \frac{\partial z}{\partial x}\frac{dx}{dt} + \frac{\partial z}{\partial y}\frac{dy}{dt} as a method to approach the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach or the source of the errors in the calculations. Multiple competing views on the application of the chain rule and the correctness of the steps remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that terms may have been omitted in the differentiation process, and there is uncertainty regarding the proper application of the chain rule. The discussion reflects a reliance on specific mathematical principles without a clear resolution of the errors identified.

reemas
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find the total derivative dz/dt, given:
[tex]z=(x^2)-8xy-(y^3)[/tex] where [tex]x=3t[/tex] and [tex]y=1-t[/tex]

my steps look like this, can someone point out where i am going wrong, please?
[tex]z'=2x-8(x'y+y'x)-3y^2[/tex] where
[tex]x'=3[/tex] and [tex]y'=-1[/tex]

[tex]2(3t)-8[3(1-t)+(-1)(3t)]-3(1-t)^2[/tex]
[tex]=6t-8[3-3t+(-3t)]-3(1-2t+t^2)[/tex]
[tex]=6t-8(3-6t)-3(1-2t+t^2)[/tex]
[tex]=6t-24+48t-3+6t-3t^2[/tex]
[tex]=12t+48t-27-3t^2[/tex]
[tex]=-3t^2+60t-27[/tex]

however, the correct answer seems to be:
[tex]3t^2+60t-21[/tex]

i'm going nuts trying to figure out where i went wrong. please help.
 
Last edited:
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reemas said:
find the total derivative dz/dt, given:
[tex]z=(x^2)-8xy-(y^3)[/tex] where [tex]x=3t[/tex] and [tex]y=1-t[/tex]

my steps look like this, can someone point out where i am going wrong, please?
[tex]z'=2x-8(x'y+y'x)-3y^2[/tex] where
[tex]x'=3[/tex] and [tex]y'=-1[/tex]

[tex]2(3t)-8[3(1-t)+(-1)(3t)]-3(1-t)^2<br /> <br /> =6t-8[3-3t+(-3t)]-3(1-2t+t^2)<br /> =6t-8(3-6t)-3(1-2t+t^2)<br /> =6t-24+48t-3+6t-3t^2<br /> =12t+48t-27-3t^2<br /> =-3t^2+60t-27[/tex]


however, the correct answer seems to be:
[tex]3t^2+60t-21[/tex]

i'm going nuts trying to figure out where i went wrong. please help.

Use just tex, not latex in your tex brackets. You want to use the formula:

[tex]\frac{dz}{dt} = \frac{\partial z}{\partial x}\frac{dx}{dt}<br /> +\frac{\partial z}{\partial y}\frac{dy}{dt}[/tex]
 
thanks for the response, i corrected the formatting. the formula is very helpful.

is there any reason my steps don't work? it seems like I'm applying all the basic principles correctly, so i feel stumped.
 
If

z=x2-8x y-y3

then

z'=2x{x'}-8(x' y+x y'))-3y2{y'}

you have omitted the terms inside the {}

or factorize into chain rule form like LCKurtz

z'=(2x-y)x'-(8x+3y2)y'
 
Last edited:

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