Error in Carroll's Spacetime Geometry?

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    Carroll Error
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expression for the variation of the metric tensor as presented in Carroll's "Spacetime and Geometry." Participants explore the implications of the minus sign in the equation and the consequences of varying both sides of the identity involving the Kronecker delta. The conversation includes technical reasoning and conceptual clarifications related to tensor variations and index manipulation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the presence of the minus sign in the variation of the metric tensor, suggesting it should be positive based on standard index manipulation rules.
  • Others argue that the minus sign is correct, providing reasoning based on the variation of the Kronecker delta and the implications of varying the metric tensor.
  • A concrete example is presented where the metric is varied, illustrating how the variations of the metric and its inverse yield different results, supporting the argument for the minus sign.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about when to recognize that raising indices on variations of the metric may not follow the usual rules, highlighting the special status of the metric in tensor calculus.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between the infinitesimal variation of the metric and the variation of the inverse metric, with participants noting that they are not equivalent.
  • The conversation includes reflections on notational conflicts arising from using the same symbols for different tensor objects, complicating index manipulation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the minus sign in the variation of the metric tensor. Multiple competing views remain regarding the implications of varying the metric and the treatment of tensor indices.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of tensor variations and the unresolved nature of how to appropriately manipulate indices in this context.

dEdt
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On page 161 of Carroll's Spacetime and Geometry, Carroll writes that
\delta g_{\mu\nu}=-g_{\mu\rho}g_{\nu\sigma}\delta g^{\rho\sigma}.
##\delta g_{\alpha \beta}## denotes an arbitrary, infinitesimal variation of the metric.

Why is there a minus sign? By the regular rules of raising and lowering indices, shouldn't it just be
\delta g_{\mu\nu}=g_{\mu\rho}g_{\nu\sigma}\delta g^{\rho\sigma}?
 
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Nope, he's correct. The easiest way to see it is to vary the Kronecker delta, δμσ = gμνgνσ. You get

0 = (δgμν)gνσ + gμν(δgνσ)

from which the minus sign.
 
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What happens when both sides of ##\delta^\alpha_\beta = g^{\alpha \mu} g_{\mu \beta}## are varied?
 
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As a concrete example, say the metric starts out as g_{\mu\nu}=\operatorname{diag}(1,-1), and then we change it to g'_{\mu\nu}=\operatorname{diag}(1+\epsilon,-1). Inverting the matrix to find the upper-index versions, we have g^{\mu\nu}=\operatorname{diag}(1,-1) and g'^{\mu\nu}=\operatorname{diag}(1-\epsilon,-1) (neglecting terms of order ε2). So \delta g_{\mu\nu}=\operatorname{diag}(\epsilon,0) and \delta g^{\mu\nu}=\operatorname{diag}(-\epsilon,0). Clearly the minus sign is right. Raising an index would have given \delta g^{\mu\nu}=\operatorname{diag}(+\epsilon,0), which is wrong.

What's less obvious to me is where the red flag should have gone up to warn me that I couldn't raise the index on \delta g. I suppose this is because the metric has special status in index gymnastics notation. When we change the metric, we're also, as a side-effect, changing the piece of apparatus that we use for raising and lowering indices. If it had not been for this fact, then it would have seemed logical to me to argue that the difference of two tensors should be a tensor, and that we should therefore be able to raise and lower its indices as usual.

Am I right in thinking that the difference between two metrics is *not* a tensor, for these reasons?
 
George Jones said:
What happens when both sides of ##\delta^\alpha_\beta = g^{\alpha \mu} g_{\mu \beta}## are varied?
You get what I wrote. The variation of δμσ is zero, and the variation of gμνgνσ is (δgμν)gνσ + gμν(δgνσ)
 
bcrowell said:
What's less obvious to me is where the red flag should have gone up to warn me that I couldn't raise the index on \delta g.

I'm thinking the problem is this: If we have a tensor ##A_{\alpha\beta}##, we can define the tensor ##A^{\alpha\beta}=g^{\alpha\gamma}g^{\beta\delta}A_{\gamma\delta}##. But when we're dealing with the tensor ##\delta g_{\alpha\beta}##, we can't just define ##\delta g^{\alpha\beta}=g^{\alpha\gamma}g^{\beta\delta}\delta g_{\gamma\delta}## because we have an independent definition for ##\delta g^{\alpha \beta}## in terms of the variation of the inverse metric, and these two definitions may not be identical (indeed they're not).

Maybe another way of putting it is that the inverse of the infinitesimal variation of the metric does not equal the infinitesimal variation of the inverse metric.
 
dEdt said:
Maybe another way of putting it is that the inverse of the infinitesimal variation of the metric does not equal the infinitesimal variation of the inverse metric.
That's what I would say. δgμν and δgμν are both tensors, but they're not the same tensor, they differ by a sign.
 
Bill_K said:
George Jones said:
What happens when both sides of ##\delta^\alpha_\beta = g^{\alpha \mu} g_{\mu \beta}## are varied?
You get what I wrote. The variation of δμσ is zero, and the variation of gμνgνσ is (δgμν)gνσ + gμν(δgνσ)

Note the almost simultaneous timings of our two posts. When I started typing, you had not posted. I phrased my post as a question in order to try and get dEdt to work things out.
 
Bill_K said:
That's what I would say. δgμν and δgμν are both tensors, but they're not the same tensor, they differ by a sign.

Which I guess means that it's a case where index gymnastics notation doesn't quite work as nicely as it usually does.
 
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bcrowell said:
Which I guess means that it's a case where index gymnastics notation doesn't quite work as nicely as it usually does.
It's a notational conflict, trying to use the same name for two different objects. You can define Aμν = δgμν and raise its indices the usual way to get Aμν. And you can define Bμν = δgμν, and even lower its indices if you like, but Aμν and Bμν aren't the same object, they need to be called by different names.
 

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