Escape Velocity & Black Holes: Can Something Escape?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of escape velocity in relation to black holes, particularly questioning whether anything can escape from within a black hole if a normal force exists that counteracts gravitational forces. The scope includes theoretical considerations of black hole physics and general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that nothing can escape black holes because their escape velocity exceeds the speed of light, with the event horizon marking this boundary.
  • One participant questions the implications of a normal force within a black hole that could potentially counteract gravitational forces, asking if this would allow for escape.
  • Another participant clarifies that in general relativity, gravity is not a force but a curvature of spacetime, indicating that all paths lead inward at the event horizon, thus negating the possibility of escape.
  • A further contribution emphasizes that the concept of escape velocity becomes meaningless at or inside the event horizon, suggesting that light cannot escape due to the curvature of spacetime rather than a force acting on it.
  • One participant references the Reissner-Nordström geometry as an example of a charged black hole, noting that even with a non-gravitational force present, escape from within the event horizon remains impossible.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that nothing can escape from inside a black hole's event horizon, but there is disagreement regarding the implications of introducing a normal force and the interpretation of escape velocity in this context.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the nature of forces within black holes and the definitions of escape velocity in the context of general relativity. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the role of forces in such extreme environments.

livethere
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It is my understanding of black holes that nothing can escape them because their escape velocity is higher than the speed of light. The place at which the escape velocity becomes higher than the speed of light is known as the event horizon. My question is what happens if there is a normal force in the black hole that combats the gravitational potential force? Could something not escape then?
 
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livethere said:
It is my understanding of black holes that nothing can escape them because their escape velocity is higher than the speed of light. The place at which the escape velocity becomes higher than the speed of light is known as the event horizon.
Right.

My question is what happens if there is a normal force in the black hole that combats the gravitational potential force? Could something not escape then?
Huh? I have no idea what you mean but nothing can escape from inside the EH of a BH.
 
Gravity in general relativity is not a force; it is a curvature of spacetime. The event horizon is the surface at which the curvature becomes strong enough that all possible paths lead inwards to the singularity. There are no paths out of the black hole, even under power. This is different from the Newtonian conception of a black hole, from which you could escape with a sufficiently powerful rocket as you suggest.
 
livethere said:
It is my understanding of black holes that nothing can escape them because their escape velocity is higher than the speed of light.

This is a common way of putting it, but it is only heuristic. Strictly speaking, the concept of "escape velocity" doesn't make sense at or inside the horizon of a black hole. A more precise way of defining a black hole is that it is a region of spacetime that cannot send light signals out to infinity. See further comments below.

livethere said:
My question is what happens if there is a normal force in the black hole that combats the gravitational potential force?

In GR, gravity is not a force, and the reason light can't escape from a black hole is not that there is a force pulling it in. The reason is that spacetime is curved in such a way that there aren't any light paths that go from the black hole region out to infinity. This will be true regardless of what other forces are present.

For an example of a black hole with a non-gravitational force present, check out the Reissner-Nordstrom geometry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reissner–Nordström_metric

This is a charged black hole with a static electric field. It still has an event horizon, and it's still impossible for anything to escape from inside the horizon, even though the force due to the electric field repels positive charges.
 

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