Eternal black hole Hawking process

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of Hawking radiation in the context of eternal black holes, specifically focusing on whether such black holes can produce Hawking pairs. Participants explore various theoretical frameworks and interpretations, referencing different vacuum states and their implications for particle creation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the boundary conditions for Hawking radiation in static black holes, noting that some literature suggests eternal black holes do produce Hawking pairs.
  • Another participant finds the argument against eternal black holes producing pairs unconvincing.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the modes used in the eternal case and questions whether Hawking pairs are produced, referencing the Boulware vacuum and its implications for pair creation around a static Schwarzschild black hole.
  • Discussion includes references to the behavior of the Green's function for nonrotating black holes and its implications for particle creation, highlighting that the Boulware vacuum indicates no pair creation due to the timelike nature of the Killing vector.
  • Further distinctions are made between different vacuum states, such as the Boulware vacuum and the Hartle-Hawking-Israel vacuum, with implications for thermal behavior and particle states around black holes.
  • Participants note that additional physical criteria are necessary to determine which quantum state corresponds to an eternal black hole, emphasizing the role of observation in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether eternal black holes can produce Hawking pairs, with some supporting the idea and others referencing arguments against it. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various vacuum states and their characteristics, indicating that the discussion is limited by the assumptions and definitions of these states. The implications of the No Hair theorem and the behavior of Green's functions near event horizons are also noted as areas of complexity.

FunkyDwarf
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Hi all,

I am trying to understand the process of Hawking radiation in the case of an eternal (static/everlasting) black hole.

As a bit of background: i understand (semi-quantitatively) how one gets particles produced when one is a frame with constant acceleration. And I sort of understand how it arises in the case of a collapsing star (time dependent field can in principle always produce pairs, I think) but for the static case the boundary conditions confuse me a little.

In light of that I found a few papers by Unruh and so on which indicate that eternal black holes DO indeed produce Hawking pairs.

However, the second paragraph of this page:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...wking eternal black hole introduction&f=false

seems to indicate otherwise. They present an interesting argument against eternal black holes producing pairs, and I was wondering what the general consensus was.

Cheers!
-Z
 
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Their argument as presented here is not very convincing.
 
Thanks for the link, but I find his comment about the eternal BH case confusing.

Basically the question I want to ask is: what are the two frames/sets of modes one uses in the purely eternal case (i.e. static metric) and are Hawking pairs produced in this case? Do you just setup some modes on the past horizon and future infinity and transform between then?

EDIT: I found this paper

http://iopscience.iop.org/0264-9381/7/8/014/pdf/cqv7i8p1353.pdf

discussing the Boulware vacuum. The author says that there is no pair creation around a static Schwarzschild black hole because there exists a static scalar vacuum (does this work with the No Hair theorem?)

I would be interested to hear thoughts on this conclusion.
 
Last edited:
Quotes/paraphrases from "Black Hole Physics" by Frolov and Novikov concerning the Boulware vacuum:

For a nonrotating black hole, the corresponding Green's function GB is a negative-frequency function on ℐ- and a positive-frequency function on ℐ+...

Consider a nonrotating spherical body of mass M and radius R0 slightly larger than 2M. Since the Killing vector ∂t is everywhere timelike, every particle has positive energy and particle creation is impossible...

The Green's function GB for a nonrotating black hole can be treated as the limit R0 → 2M. It has simple, regular behavior far from the black hole and corresponds to the absence of quantum radiation on both ℐ- and ℐ+, but reveals poor analytical behavior close to the event horizon. The renormalized quantities <B|Tμν|B> and <B|φ2|B> both diverge on H+ and H-.

Because of the presence of superradiant modes, GB is not well-defined for a rotating black hole.
 
Further comments from "Quantum Fields in Curved Space" by Birrell and Davies (Slightly different notation):

|0S> = Boulware vacuum. Modes are positive frequency wrt the Killing vector ∂t of Schwarzschild time. They oscillate infinitely rapidly on H+. Far from the hole the state reduces to the Minkowski vacuum state.

|0K> = Hartle-Hawking-Israel vacuum. Modes are positive frequency wrt the Killing vector of Kruskal time. They are regular on H+. Far from the hole the state reduces to a thermal bath.

"As always in quantum theory, additional physical criteria are necessary to decide which quantum state corresponds to the physical situation of interest. If the universe contains an eternal black hole, only observation can reveal what quantum state is actually realized. However |0K> clearly reproduces the features outside the hole that would be present if a black hole that was formed from collapsing body were subsequently confined in a box and allowed to come into thermal equilibrium."

"A third vacuum, |0U>, the Unruh vacuum, yields a time-asymmetric thermal flux from the hole rather than a thermal bath."
 

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