Expanding parenthesis when a negative is involved

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    Expanding Negative
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expansion of expressions involving parentheses and negative signs, specifically focusing on the expression (x-2y)^2 - (2x - y)^2. Participants explore methods for correctly applying the rules of expansion and the impact of negative signs in algebraic expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how to handle the negative sign in the expression -(-y)(2x-y) and seeks clarification on the rules for expansion when negatives are involved.
  • Another participant suggests that replacing a negative with multiplication by (-1) can simplify the expansion process, demonstrating this with the expression and arriving at a result of 2xy - y^2.
  • A different participant agrees with the previous explanation and reiterates that thinking of -n as +(-1)*n can help clarify the expansion process.
  • One participant proposes introducing additional parentheses to avoid confusion with negative signs, suggesting that this method allows for clearer expansion without the risk of misapplying the negative sign.
  • A later reply mentions successfully factorizing the original expression to 3(y^2 - x^2) and reflects on the simplicity of the concepts now compared to their earlier education.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the methods for handling negatives in expansion, but there is no consensus on a single approach, as various methods are discussed and preferred by different participants.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the concepts discussed are elementary and may be better explained by a high school teacher, indicating a potential gap in foundational understanding among some contributors.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals seeking to improve their understanding of algebraic expansion, particularly those who struggle with the application of negative signs in mathematical expressions.

educatingrob
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Im completing Engineering Maths cover to cover in an attempt to get more familiar with maths as I finished my education many years ago without really understanding many basic maths concepts. This problem is at the back of the introduction to algebra.

(x-2y)^2 - (2x - y)^2

Now I can expand fairly easily:

x(x-2y) - 2y(x-2y) - (2x)(2x-y) - (-y)(2x-y)

x^2 - 2yx - 2yx + 4y^2 - 4x^2 ... Hmm

I know the rest as its in the book but I don't know the correct method for determining:
- (-y)(2x-y)

because of the negative at the front. without it, its easy:
-y * 2x = -2xy
-y * -y = y^2

thus:
-2xy + y^2

but then you have ... - -2xy + y^2

minus minus?

What I don't understand is how the negative before the brackets affects the result. When expanding is it:
- (-y)(2x-y)
-y * 2x = -2xy * -1 = 2xy
-y * -y = y^2 * -1 = -y^2

or maybe the - term belongs to all the last bit?

- (-2xy + y^2)
so its
-1 * (-2xy + y^2)
= +2xy - y^2

If someone could explain the rule dictated to expand when there's a negative, I would be grateful as I can't find an example or comment about how to think of this.

Of course there's the other FILO way (a+b)(c+d) = ac+bc+bd+ad

but that's just confusing me more WRT expanding the two elements of (x-2y)^2 - (2x - y)^2 because of the negative.

My maths is riddled with these inconsistencies where I just used to guess without understanding what's missing or what rule to follow.

(apologies for the stupid question, thanks for any help)
 
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This is very elementary stuff... a high school teacher could probably explain it better. You can always replace a - by a multiplication with (-1). So - (-y)(2x-y) = (-1)\cdot (-y) \cdot (2x-y) Now there are many ways to calculate the results. The easiest is this one: (-1)\cdot ((-1) \cdot y) \cdot (2x - y) = (-1)\cdot (-1) \cdot y \cdot (2x - y)= y \cdot (2x - y) = 2xy - y^2 because (-1)\cdot(-1)=1 Btw a - b = a + (-1)\cdot b and your equation would usually be solved using the binomial theorem...
 
Looks to me that you got the right answer by both methods above.
You can think of -n as +(-1)*n. So - (-y)(2x-y) = +(-1) (-y)(2x-y). Multiplying the first two terms together gives +y(2x-y). Or multiplying the last two terms first gives +(-1)*(-2xy+y^2) = 2xy-y^2.
 
The simplest, and safest way is to introduce a new parenthesis between the expression to be expanded, and then solve that paranthesis later. You can ALWAYS place as many parentheses you want about a single term.

So:
-(2x-y)^2=-((2x-y)^2). Now, internally, there is no dangerous minus sign, so you can proceed
-((2x-y)^2)=-(2x(2x-y)-y(2x-y))=
-(4x^2-2xy-2xy+y^2)=-(4x^2-4xy+y^2)=-4x^2+4xy-y^2
 
Annoyingly Id just typed out a long response and the session timed out when I went to post it

Anyway,

I managed to factorize
(x-2y)^2-(2x-y)^2
to
3(y^2-x^2)
via, as you posted introducing (-1), more parenthesis.

i.e.
(x)(x-2y)(-2y)(x-2y)(-1)(2x)(2x-y)(-1)(-y)(2x-y)

This is very elementary stuff... a high school teacher could probably explain it better.
The last time I was around high school teachers was 20 years ago and for whatever reason, I didnt get it then ;) Seems elementary now though.

Thanks all :)

Just looking at the binomial theorem.
 

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