Explaining Aether & Difference between Higgs Field & Aether

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of Aether and its distinction from the Higgs field, exploring historical perspectives, theoretical implications, and the nature of these fields within the context of physics. Participants engage in both conceptual clarification and technical reasoning regarding the properties and roles of these fields in relation to relativity and particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe Aether as a historical concept that was once thought to be a medium for light waves, but later experiments suggested it does not exist or have observable effects.
  • Others argue that the Aether is Galilean invariant and cannot accommodate the principles of relativity, while fields like the Higgs field are Lorentz invariant.
  • One participant mentions that the Higgs field is essential for the Standard Model of particle physics, suggesting a deeper theoretical significance compared to Aether.
  • A later reply introduces the idea of a fifth-dimensional Aether that could preserve four-dimensional Lorentz invariance and discusses its potential effects on scalar fields.
  • Another participant questions the interaction term in the Lagrangian involving the Aether and scalar field, seeking clarification on its implications.
  • One participant provides a link to Wikipedia for further reading on the Higgs field and its relation to the Higgs boson, indicating a desire for additional resources.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance and existence of Aether, with some asserting its historical context and others proposing theoretical models involving Aether. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various theoretical frameworks and mathematical formulations, indicating that assumptions about the nature of Aether and fields may depend on specific definitions and contexts. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and speculative ideas about higher dimensions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying theoretical physics, particularly in the areas of field theory, relativity, and particle physics, as well as individuals curious about historical concepts in physics.

Haibara Ai
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Can someone explain to me what Aether is? And what's the difference between the Higgs field and the aether?

thanks
 
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Haibara Ai said:
Can someone explain to me what Aether is?
When people started to learn that light acted like a wave, they reasoned that there was some medium which the light was a wave perturbation on. This was a fairly reasonable assumption at the time, as all known waves at the time occurred in some medium. They called this medium for electrodynamics the aether. As with sound in air or ocean waves on the water, the relevant speed is the speed with respect to the medium. So they thought that the speed of light (or maxwell's equations in general) were only true in one coordinate system ... the "aether frame" in which the aether is at reast. Experiment later showed that such an aether did not exist (or at the very least had no effect on experiment and therefore was not a subject for science). So the aether is now a defunct topic accept for certain gravity theories that try to add in a dynamic background field that breaks lorentz invariance... but these are not mainstream.

Haibara Ai said:
And what's the difference between the Higgs field and the aether?
As described above, the aether is not related to the Higgs at all.
Furthermore the (standard model) Higgs field is completely relativistic, so does not provide any preferred frame / lorentz breaking effects either.
 
Haibara Ai said:
Can someone explain to me what Aether is? And what's the difference between the Higgs field and the aether?

thanks

The difference between any field (including the Higgs Field; others would be the electromagnetic field, strong field, etc.) and the aether is that fields are Lorentz invariant, meaning they can accommodate special relativity theory. The "aether" is Galilean invariant, and can't accommodate relativity theory.

The "field" view has been successful in matching real data; the "aether" view has not.

To explain specifically what the "Higgs Field" is quite a deep subject, but basically, its presence is necessary (in some form) if the Standard Model electroweak unification theory is correct.
:smile: (Hope this helps...)
 
...I would add that an aether in the 5th dimension would still preserve 4D lorentz invariance, and have some quite interesting effects.

For example, consider a scalar field coupled to an aether field [itex]u^a[/itex]in the fifth dimension:

[tex]\mathcal{L}_{\phi}= \frac{1}{2} (\partial\phi)^2 -\frac{1}{2} m^2\phi^2-\frac{1}{2\mu^2_\phi}u^a u^b\partial_a\phi\partial_b\phi[/tex]
where
[tex]u^a=(0,0,0,0,v)[/tex]
Solving the higher dimensional Euler Lagrange equations
[tex]\partial_a \left(\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_a\phi)}\right)-\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \phi}=0[/tex]
you can quickly obtain:
[tex]\partial_a\partial^a\phi-m^2\phi=\mu^{-2}_\phi\partial_a(u^au^b\partial_b\phi)[/tex]
expressed in momentum space you get:
[tex]\phi \propto e^{ik_ax^a}=e^{ik_\mu x^\mu}e^{ik_5y}[/tex]
For the term involving the VEV of the aether field you can quickly obtain:
[tex]\mu^{-2}_\phi\partial_a(u^au^b\partial_b\phi)&=&\mu^{-2}_\phi\partial_5(u^5u^5\partial_5\phi)[/tex]
[tex]=\frac{v^2k_5^2}{\mu_\phi^2}\phi[/tex]
If we now impose periodic boundary conditions on the wave vector in the fifth dimension
[tex]k_5=\frac{n\pi}{R}[/tex]
you find
[tex]-k_\mu k^\mu=m^2+(1+\alpha_\phi^2)\left(\frac{n\pi}{R}\right)^2[/tex]
The interpretation of this is that the mass spacing for the KK tower is enhanced. This is actually a pretty neat way to hide extra dimensions - eg, they could still be large, but the modified momentum dispersion relations simply mean that extremely high momentum would be required to observe them.
 
Thanks a lot
:)
 
robousy said:
...I would add that an aether in the 5th dimension would still preserve 4D lorentz invariance, and have some quite interesting effects.

For example, consider a scalar field coupled to an aether field [itex]u^a[/itex]in the fifth dimension:

[tex]\mathcal{L}_{\phi}= \frac{1}{2} (\partial\phi)^2 -\frac{1}{2} m^2\phi^2-\frac{1}{2\mu^2_\phi}u^a u^b\partial_a\phi\partial_b\phi[/tex]

why does the term [tex]-\frac{1}{2\mu^2_\phi}u^a u^b\partial_a\phi\partial_b\phi[/tex] stand for the interaction between aether and scalar field?

thanks
 
Try Wikipedia for the Higgs Field:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_field

The Higgs boson is the particle manifestation (quanta) of the Higgs field like the photon is the particle manifestation of the electromagnetic field...If they ever get the large hadron collider running in Europe, it is hoped that will be able to confirm the existence of the HIGGS boson...
 

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