The discussion centers on the stability of second and third generation fermions, such as muons and top quarks, in a universe devoid of the Higgs field. Participants assert that without the Higgs field, fermions would be massless and indistinguishable, as Yukawa couplings, which provide mass and distinguishability, would not exist. The conversation also touches on the implications of multiple Higgs fields in theories like MSSM and GUT, suggesting that additional Higgs fields could influence fermion masses but do not fundamentally change the indistinguishability of massless particles in a Higgs-less universe.
PREREQUISITESParticle physicists, theoretical physicists, and students interested in the implications of the Higgs field on fermion behavior and mass generation.
Orodruin said:Yes, but you would likely have to give a very good argument as to why these fields would not couple to all fermions as allowed by the quantum numbers.
What do you think the Yukawa couplings are? They describe how strongly the different fermions couple to the Higgs field.kodama said:are there any proposals to extend the SM with additional degree of freedom and quantum numbers, to allow for a "higgs charge" so that second and third generation fermions have more higgs-charge than first generation via yukawa coupling?
Orodruin said:What do you think the Yukawa couplings are? They describe how strongly the different fermions couple to the Higgs field.
Edit: Note that they are not a charge in the sense of a charge related to a gauge symmetry.
There would also be no physicists to perform experiments ;).Orodruin said:If there is no Higgs the Z is massless and does not decay (well, truth with modification). This is why I said cross sections instead of decays. A closer analogue would be the QCD color factors.
mfb said:The coupling constants are these charges you are looking for. It doesn't matter if you call them coupling constants or charges. Same thing.There would also be no physicists to perform experiments ;).
kodama said:that's what i am wondering about
a hypothesis that the reason second and third generation fermions are heavier than first and interact more strongly with the higgs field there is a higgs-charge that is a charge in the sense of a charge related to a gauge symmetry
I don't get that part, why wouldn't Z decay?Orodruin said:If there is no Higgs the Z is massless and does not decay (well, truth with modification).
How many massless particles do you know that decay?ChrisVer said:I don't get that part, why wouldn't Z decay?
I know 1 massless particle out of the 1 massless particles there which can decay (well not alone)...Orodruin said:How many massless particles do you know that decay?
So, not a decay.ChrisVer said:(well not alone)...
Many (not all, but I would say a majority of) neutrino mass models give rise to neutrino masses through the appearance of a Weinberg operator after integrating out some heavy states. Without the Higgs, such operators do not exist.mfb said:You would still have three flavors. If you can distinguish between different neutrino types depends on the mechanism that leads to neutrino masses, but the different masses (if applicable) would be the only difference you could see.
What happens in this universe (Higgsfull) when a tau interacts with a positron?kodama said:in a higgless universe, what would happen if a tau interacts with a positron?
ChrisVer said:What happens in this universe (Higgsfull) when a tau interacts with a positron?
I don't know, is the Lepton number also associated with the existence of the Higgs?