Explaining an experimental oddity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around an experimental observation related to measuring the latent heat of vaporization of liquid nitrogen. Participants explore the effects of inserting a piece of aluminum into the liquid nitrogen and the subsequent changes in mass loss rates, considering factors such as thermal equilibrium and heat transfer dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an experiment measuring latent heat of vaporization, noting a change in mass loss rate after inserting aluminum into liquid nitrogen.
  • Another participant questions the accuracy of the initial description, suggesting that the aluminum may not have reached thermal equilibrium with the liquid nitrogen when the mass loss rate changes.
  • A third participant provides a sketch of a graph indicating when the aluminum stops dissipating heat, asserting that the mass loss rate reduces significantly at that point.
  • Another participant speculates that the heating process may involve convective states in the liquid, which could be disrupted by the introduction of the aluminum block.
  • One participant suggests extending the lower sloped line of the mass loss graph to analyze the relationship with the steeply sloped line.
  • Another participant raises the possibility that the aluminum may not be fully submerged throughout the experiment, which could affect the mass loss rate due to recondensation of vapor.
  • There is a discussion about the steeper part of the mass loss curve being relevant for calculating the heat of vaporization, while also noting potential sources of error related to thermal equilibrium assumptions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the thermal dynamics at play, particularly regarding the thermal equilibrium of the aluminum and liquid nitrogen, and whether the observed mass loss rates should be interpreted differently. No consensus is reached on the implications of these observations for the experiment.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential for hysteresis effects and the need for careful consideration of thermal dynamics in the experiment. There are unresolved questions about the assumptions made regarding temperature uniformity before and after the experiment.

ralqs
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I had to do an experiment to measure the latent heat of vaporization of liquid nitrogen. This was done by placing a canister of liquid nitrogen on a scale, and inserting a piece of aluminum of known mass into the canister. Knowing the initial temperature and heat capacity of aluminum, it's possible to figure out how much heat is added into the system. Then, using the recordings of the scale to figure out the rate of mass loss, it's not hard to calculate the latent heat of vaporization.

Now, some of the mass loss will be due to heat entering the system from the surroundings. I tried to account for this by measuring the rate of mass loss before and after the aluminum was adding heat to the nitrogen. Here, there's an interesting effect: for about half a minute after the aluminum was at the same temperature as the liquid, the rate of mass loss was quite small but constant. Then, abruptly, the rate of mass loss increases to a value close to what it was before the experiment started. I suspect that's it's related to the fact that, at the end the period over which aluminum is dissipating heat, the rate of vaporization shoots up (because the layer of nitrogen created by the Leidenfrost effect disappears) and a noticeable decrease in mass occurs over a very short time interval.

This is important because I need to estimate the rate of mass loss due to the surroundings while the piece of aluminum heating the nitrogen, and I'll get a different answer for the latent heat of vaporization if I say that the rate of mass loss is what is was right after the aluminum stops adding heat (when it was very small) or if I say that the rate of mass loss is what it was after it shoots up. So, which is it?
 
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You may describing what happens incorrectly as you refer to "when the aluminium was at the same temperature as the liquid" - How do you know this? Do you instead mean to say " when the aluminium was inserted into the liaquid"

And, "at the end the period over which aluminum is dissipating heat, the rate of vaporization shoots up" - Again, how do you know the dissipation of heat has ended? I would think that if the rate of vaporization increases then the aluminium is still not at thermal equilibrium with the liquid, but has just fallen below the Leidenfrost temperature. ( if that is what is happenning with the liquid and aluminium which seems very plausible )
 
I've included a sketch of a typical graph of the mass of nitrogen versus time. It's pretty clear when the aluminum stops dissipating heat: the rate of mass loss reduces substantially.
 

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There's no time scale so it's difficult to offer specific possibilities.

My one thought is obviously the 'steady' heating process is probably some sort of convective state in the liquid. Putting a block in changes this - now the block is the main source of heat. Once it's cooled the convective heat transfer process will take time to restart and heat transfer is probably less efficient until it does. It's a guess though.
 
Extend the lower sloped line backwards and see where it hits the steeply sloped line...see if that tells you anything.
 
OK. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Is the piece of aluminium still completely covered by the liquid throughout the whole experiment. That might account for the lessor rate of mass loss if the vapour is recondensing onto any aluminium exposed above the surface.

Or as Reasonableman states the the thermal currents set up from heat loss to the surroundings have to re-start after being disturbed by the aluminium.

In any case the steeper part of the curve is where the aluminium was transferring heat to the liquid, and that mass loss should be be used to calculate your heat of vaporization. Why there is a type of hysterisis, if it can be called that, after the aluminium and liquid are in thermal equilibrium, could be a source of error in your experiment and could be further studied as to why. In this experiment one is assuming that the temperature of the liquid is the same before and after the experiment.

Is this your expriment
http://www.physicslabs.umb.edu/Physics/spring06/Exp3_182_Spr06.pdf
 
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