Explaining Chaos in Constant Accelerating Systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the presence or absence of chaos in constant accelerating systems, particularly focusing on the mathematical representation of such systems and the implications of nonlinearity. Participants explore the relationship between nonlinearity in equations and the sensitivity of systems to initial conditions, examining both theoretical and practical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that chaos could arise from nonlinearity, questioning why chaos does not manifest in constant accelerating systems despite their nonlinear equations.
  • One participant suggests that the lack of sensitivity to initial conditions in the trajectory of the system may explain the absence of chaos, prompting a discussion on the definitions of sensitivity.
  • Another participant mentions the calculation of the largest Lyapunov exponent as a method to assess chaos, indicating that their calculations resulted in a zero Lyapunov exponent.
  • A comparison is made with an anharmonic 1D oscillator, which is also nonlinear but not chaotic, highlighting that the nature of the force in the constant accelerating system leads to linear equations of motion despite the nonlinear trajectory.
  • It is noted that a harmonic oscillator can exhibit chaotic behavior if the spring constant is negative, suggesting that the conditions under which nonlinearity leads to chaos are complex and context-dependent.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between nonlinearity and chaos, with no consensus reached on the conditions necessary for chaos to emerge in constant accelerating systems. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitions and implications of sensitivity to initial conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of sensitivity and the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps involved in the calculations of Lyapunov exponents.

LagrangeEuler
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Chaos could appear in the system if there is some nonlinearity. My question is how to explain that there is no chaos in constant acceletating system
s(t)=v_0t+\frac{at^2}{2}
when equation is nonlinear? Why is important only that difference and differential equation be nonlinear. It confusing me.
 
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LagrangeEuler said:
Chaos could appear in the system if there is some nonlinearity. My question is how to explain that there is no chaos in constant acceletating system
s(t)=v_0t+\frac{at^2}{2}
when equation is nonlinear? Why is important only that difference and differential equation be nonlinear. It confusing me.
The crucial point is probably, that ##s(t)## isn't sensitive on the initial conditions. To answer why, I'll have to ask you which definition of sensitivity do you want to use (I've found three on Wikipedia). I assume the entire trajectory will be the underlying topological space as well as its dense ##s-##invariant subset in order to clear the topological assumptions.
 
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Exponential sensitivity. Calculation of largest Lyapunov exponent.
 
A back of the envelope calculation with the first differential as quotient of rates, the formula ##\log (1+t) = - \log (1 - (\frac{t}{1+t}))## and the power series of ##\log## gave me a Lyapunov exponent zero.
 
An anharmonic 1D oscillator with Lagrangian ##\frac{p^2}{2m}-kx^4## isn't chaotic either, even though the equation of motion is nonlinear in ##x(t)##. On the other hand, you can make a harmonic oscillator chaotically sensitive to the initial condition by choosing a negative "spring constant" (a slightest deviation from the equilibrium position will start growing exponentially) . Note that in the constant accelerating system the force is an s-independent constant, which means that it's actually a mechanical system with a linear equation of motion even though the trajectory is a nonlinear function of ##t##.
 
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