Explaining gyroscopic precession with linear vectors?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the explanation of gyroscopic precession, specifically seeking to understand it through linear quantities rather than the conventional angular quantities like torque and angular momentum. Participants explore various perspectives on this topic, including references to existing literature and diagrams.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a gyroscope resists movement due to the linear velocity of points on the wheel, proposing to explain gyroscopic precession using linear quantities.
  • Another participant references Larry Gonick's "Cartoon Guide to Physics," indicating that while the general idea is correct, there may be inaccuracies in the diagrams presented.
  • A participant expresses gratitude for the previous contributions and questions the accuracy of the vectors depicted in the referenced diagram.
  • Concerns are raised about the depiction of forces and resulting velocities in the diagrams, with one participant asserting that the logic is sound but the details are lacking.
  • A later post critiques the initial question as having built-in assumptions and compares it to explaining a circle with only lines, suggesting that such an explanation would be inadequate.
  • A resource is provided for further exploration of gyroscopes and precession, although it is noted that access may require enabling pop-ups.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the accuracy of the diagrams and the feasibility of explaining gyroscopic precession using linear quantities. There is no consensus on the correctness of the diagrams or the assumptions underlying the initial question.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate that the diagrams may not accurately represent the forces involved in gyroscopic motion, suggesting that further detail is necessary for a complete understanding. There are also references to potential assumptions in the initial question that may complicate the discussion.

jaydnul
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For example, an explanation as to why a gyroscope resists movement is because every point on the wheel has a linear velocity of a certain speed and it would take a sufficient amount of force to change its direction.

So could you also explain gyroscopic PRECESSION using only the linear quantities? (Instead of angular quantities, like torque and angular momentum, like its usually explained).
 
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Larry Gonick has an explanation in the Cartoon Guide to Physics. You can see it on Google Books (or at least I can):

The Cartoon Guide to Physics - Larry Gonick - Google Books

Whether you buy this explanation is another question, of course. I believe the general idea behind the explanation is correct, even though there are some things in the diagrams that aren't.
 
Wow, eigenperson, that is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for all your help tonight!

What is it about the diagram that you feel is incorrect? Seems legitimate to me (but what do I know)
 
Well, I'm not absolutely convinced those vectors are accurate depictions of the "flopping" forces. And there is a similar problem with the diagram that shows the resulting velocities (actually, that one I know is wrong, because if the sides of the wheel were moving with those velocities, it would rotate about a vertical axis passing through its own hub instead of an axis passing through the point of suspension).

Even if I'm right about these inaccuracies, I think the logic overall is correct. There's just a lot more detail than he shows.
 
Jd0g33 said:
For example, an explanation as to why a gyroscope resists movement is because every point on the wheel has a linear velocity of a certain speed and it would take a sufficient amount of force to change its direction.

So could you also explain gyroscopic PRECESSION using only the linear quantities? (Instead of angular quantities, like torque and angular momentum, like its usually explained).

Aside from the fact that this question appears to have some built-in wrong assumptions, it is a bit like asking if it is possible to explain a circle with only lines. The answer to both is "not very well".

At any rate, there is a good explanation of gyroscopes and precession at
http://www.learner.org/resources/series42.html?pop=yes&pid=569#
Just make sure you enable pop-ups, otherwise you will not be able to see it.
 

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