Explaining Spacetime Dragging: Gravity, EM & Smooth Objects

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    Mechanism Spacetime
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of spacetime dragging by smooth, symmetrical objects such as black holes and spinning neutron stars. Participants explore analogies and explanations related to how these objects influence spacetime, particularly in the context of general relativity and the stress-energy tensor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a simple analogy for how smooth rotating objects can drag spacetime, suggesting a viscous liquid analogy but expressing confusion about the mechanism.
  • Another participant affirms the viscous liquid analogy as limited but applicable within certain constraints.
  • There is a discussion about how spacetime geometry propagates and how the rotation of an object affects both the internal and external spacetime geometry.
  • A question is raised about whether the gradient of gravity created by rotation leads to unevenness in spacetime geometry.
  • One participant clarifies that gravity is synonymous with spacetime geometry and that the stress-energy tensor is the true source of spacetime geometry, as per the Einstein Field Equation.
  • Another participant notes that rotating and non-rotating spherical objects can have the same energy density but different momentum densities, leading to different responses in spacetime geometry.
  • Participants express intent to research further into the stress-energy tensor and related concepts like the Einstein field equations and the Kerr-Newman solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the role of the stress-energy tensor in influencing spacetime geometry, but there are differing views on the implications of rotation and the nature of gravity as it relates to spacetime dragging. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise mechanisms at play.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of spacetime and gravity, as well as the definitions of terms like "stress-energy tensor." There are unresolved aspects regarding the relationship between rotation, momentum density, and spacetime geometry.

bland
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I'm looking for a simple explanation or decent analogy whereby something that is symmetrical and smooth like a black hole or even a spinning neutron star can drag spacetime as if spacetime was a viscous liquid. It guess it might make sense to me if gravity was unified with EM.

I can see how two massive objects orbiting each other could cause ripples, but I don't understand how something that is completely smooth and rotating can drag space around it. Maybe the Earth because it's lumpy. Obviously smooth things do drag spacetime and probably the Earth dragging has nothing to do with the lumpiness.

So how does spacetime "know" that there is a smooth rotating object nearby? What is happening at the boundary of the object, if indeed the boundary has anything to do with it.
 
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bland said:
I'm looking for a simple explanation or decent analogy whereby something that is symmetrical and smooth like a black hole or even a spinning neutron star can drag spacetime as if spacetime was a viscous liquid.

You just gave the analogy: a viscous liquid. It's a limited analogy, but it works within its limitations.

bland said:
Obviously smooth things do drag spacetime and probably the Earth dragging has nothing to do with the lumpiness.

Correct.

bland said:
how does spacetime "know" that there is a smooth rotating object nearby?

Because spacetime geometry propagates. The object itself is rotating, which affects the spacetime geometry inside the object, which in turn affects the spacetime geometry outside the object.
 
PeterDonis said:
Because spacetime geometry propagates. The object itself is rotating, which affects the spacetime geometry inside the object, which in turn affects the spacetime geometry outside the object.

So does that mean that it's the gradient of the gravity that by rotating about an axis creates the unevenness that affects the geometry?
 
bland said:
does that mean that it's the gradient of the gravity that by rotating about an axis creates the unevenness that affects the geometry?

No. "Gravity" is another way of saying "spacetime geometry". It isn't what causes the spacetime geometry. What causes the spacetime geometry is the stress-energy tensor (via the Einstein Field Equation), plus how spacetime geometry propagates.
 
bland said:
So how does spacetime "know" that there is a smooth rotating object nearby?
In GR the source of gravity is not just mass, it is the stress energy tensor. This tensor includes energy density (mostly mass), but it also includes momentum density, pressure, and stress.

A rotating and a non rotating spherical object may have the same energy density, but they will have different momentum densities. They are fundamentally different sources, and the spacetime geometry responds differently to the different momentum densities.
 
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OK thanks Dale and PD for that answer, I will do some research into the 'stress energy tensor'.
 
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bland said:
OK thanks Dale and PD for that answer, I will do some research into the 'stress energy tensor'.
"Einstein field equations" and "Kerr-Newman solution" as search terms will get you started. But fasten your sear belt - it will be a bumpy ride.
 

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