Explaining the Concepts of Force and Energy

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of force and energy, particularly focusing on the definition of work in physics and its implications in various scenarios. Participants explore the nuances of exerting force without movement and the energy dynamics involved in holding weights versus lifting them.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Exploratory

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants raise questions about the definition of work, particularly in scenarios where force is applied without displacement. They discuss the implications of holding a weight and the energy expenditure involved in maintaining muscle tension. Another participant presents a scenario involving forces acting on an object in motion, questioning the work done under equilibrium conditions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into the differences between external work and internal energy expenditure. Some participants suggest that the fatigue experienced while holding a weight is related to internal biomechanical energy rather than external work done. Multiple interpretations of the scenarios are being explored, particularly regarding the application of forces and the resulting work.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of definitions and assumptions related to work and energy in physics. There is an emphasis on understanding the distinctions between different types of work and energy expenditure, with some constraints noted in the scenarios presented.

HaoPhysics
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1. The dilemma
Work (change in energy) is defined as the exertion of a force over a distance parallel to the force.

So if force is exerted, but nothing is moved (presumably with two immovable objects), then no energy is changed.

But think about the dilemma with a person lifting 100 pounds above his head. He exerts a force of 100 pounds to counter the weight, and say he keeps it above his head for 1 hour. According to the work equation, the person has changed 0 energy in doing this act.

But he has continually exerted a force of 100 pounds for 1 hour, and now he is very tired. But according to work, he has spent 0 energy.

What am I missing?
 
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Another question:

Let there be an object of mass 1 kg in space. There is a constant force F1 acting on the left and F2 acting on the right. F1=F2. The object observes no acceleration. But the object was moving in space at a constant velocity of 1 m/s to the left.

The object moves for 10 seconds.

How much work has F1 done on the object?
 
HaoPhysics said:
1. The dilemma
Work (change in energy) is defined as the exertion of a force over a distance parallel to the force.

So if force is exerted, but nothing is moved (presumably with two immovable objects), then no energy is changed.

But think about the dilemma with a person lifting 100 pounds above his head. He exerts a force of 100 pounds to counter the weight, and say he keeps it above his head for 1 hour. According to the work equation, the person has changed 0 energy in doing this act.

But he has continually exerted a force of 100 pounds for 1 hour, and now he is very tired. But according to work, he has spent 0 energy.

What am I missing?

He's not doing any external work and, if the weight wasn't too heavy, he would only get tired very slowly compared with lifting the weight repeatedly.

But, it takes internal (biomechanical) energy to keep muscles in a locked position, Also, this work is dependent on whether the muscles are in a comfortable position.

If you put the weight on a table, the table wouldn't get tired supporting the weight and wouldn't need a fuel supply.
 
HaoPhysics said:
Another question:

Let there be an object of mass 1 kg in space. There is a constant force F1 acting on the left and F2 acting on the right. F1=F2. The object observes no acceleration. But the object was moving in space at a constant velocity of 1 m/s to the left.

The object moves for 10 seconds.

How much work has F1 done on the object?

I'm sure you can work that out for yourself.
 
PeroK said:
He's not doing any external work and, if the weight wasn't too heavy, he would only get tired very slowly compared with lifting the weight repeatedly.

But, it takes internal (biomechanical) energy to keep muscles in a locked position, Also, this work is dependent on whether the muscles are in a comfortable position.

If you put the weight on a table, the table wouldn't get tired supporting the weight and wouldn't need a fuel supply.

That is true that it is much less tiring than exerting a force greater than 100 pounds to lift it up and down repeatedly. And your point about a table needing fuel makes a lot of sense.
 

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