Explicit variable from equation

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    Explicit Variable
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenge of isolating the variable m from a summation equation involving binomial coefficients. The participants explore the implications of known variables and seek methods to express m in terms of other parameters, specifically in the context of polynomial equations.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a summation equation and requests assistance in expressing m as a function of known variables n, p, and k.
  • Another participant provides a specific example with m and n both equal to 1, demonstrating that the equation simplifies to a polynomial in p, suggesting that no explicit formula for m may exist.
  • A participant clarifies that while p is known, m appears in both the binomial coefficient and the exponent, complicating the possibility of finding an explicit formula.
  • The original poster expresses interest in finding an approximate value for m, specifically the minimum value that satisfies a derived inequality involving g(n, m, p) and k.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that isolating m explicitly from the given equation is complex due to its presence in multiple terms. However, there is no consensus on a specific method to calculate or approximate m.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the challenges posed by the polynomial nature of the equation and the dependencies of variables involved, but does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions necessary for further analysis.

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hi all!

I'm facing this problem and I can't get a solution, I want to explicit variable m from the following equation, I tried with binomial theorem to break up binomial coefficient but it was useless...
can someone help me please?

[tex]\sum_{i=n}^{n+m}\binom{n+m} {i}p^i(1-p)^{n+m-i} = k[/tex]

all variables are known except m, and k is a known constant.
virtually I'd like something in the form:
[tex]m = g(n,p,k)[/tex]

thanks!
 
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Look at a couple of simple examples. Suppose m= n= 1. Then that says
[tex]\sum_{i=1}^{2}\binom{2}{i}p^i(1-p)^{2-i} = k[/tex]
which is
[tex]\binom{2}{1}p(1- p)+ \binom{2}{2}p^2= 2p- 2p^2+ p^2= 2p- p^2= k[/tex]

In general, that is an m+n degree polynomial in p and you are not going to find any explicit formula for the solution of such a polynomial.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Look at a couple of simple examples. Suppose m= n= 1. Then that says
[tex]\sum_{i=1}^{2}\binom{2}{i}p^i(1-p)^{2-i} = k[/tex]
which is
[tex]\binom{2}{1}p(1- p)+ \binom{2}{2}p^2= 2p- 2p^2+ p^2= 2p- p^2= k[/tex]

In general, that is an m+n degree polynomial in p and you are not going to find any explicit formula for the solution of such a polynomial.

mm let me understand better...you are talking about a polynomial in p, but I told that p is known! my incognita is m... did I miss something?
 
Sorry, for some reason I thought you had said "p". But because the m occurs both in the binomial coefficient and in the exponent, I would say that there is much less likely to be an explicit formula for m.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Sorry, for some reason I thought you had said "p". But because the m occurs both in the binomial coefficient and in the exponent, I would say that there is much less likely to be an explicit formula for m.

mm ok! :)
do you see another way to calculate m (or an approximated value)??
It's ok for me to get the minimum value of m that satisfies:

[tex]g(n,m,p)>=k[/tex]
 

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