Chernobyl Fate of Chernobyl's vehicle graveyard

[Salvador]

All you say is correct but I can't agree about the avalanche that started with Chernobyl , if you know history you would know that the USSR managed to eliminate millions of it's own enemies of the state back in the day and it also managed to tell professional lies when it was needed , so in terms of human sacrifice Chernobyl is actually tiny and small compared with the first Afghan war that the Soviets started in 1979 until 1989.Chernobyl was also politically well isolated inside the USSR so nobody gave a damn and when they heard the news it was already months after.The only ones that voiced concern or knew more were those directly involved or those that understand nuclear physics.

At the end of the day it all comes down to money , the reason why the USSR fell because of it's planned economy.If the government would have bothered more to enrich it's own people the union probably would have stood much longer.There would not be the fundamental reason for the unrest inside the party and the society.
Let's be honest all big powers tell lies at some point , well maybe the US has never matched the USSR or communist China in terms of brutality and twisted wickedness but the US too deals with great lies told by the oil industry etc etc , big corporations etc.
All comes down to money , give the ordinary folk money and some taste of "freedom" much like the artificial flavors added to modern drinks that are supposed to be natural and their happy , their too ignorant to care about some sort of Chernobyl or Fukushima or oil spills , as long as their big Chevy runs great their fine.Sorry for my commenting it's just what I see on daily basis.

 

[nikkkom]

At the end of the day it all comes down to money , the reason why the USSR fell because of it's planned economy. If the government would have bothered more to enrich it's own people the union probably would have stood much longer.

They could not give more to the people, socialist economy is intrinsically inefficient. It CAN'T work better. Anyone who thinks socialism can work efficiently, should book a vacation trip to Venezuela. Sadly, so many people in "evil capitalist" world do not understand it.

 

[nikkkom]

Let's be honest all big powers tell lies at some point , well maybe the US has never matched the USSR or communist China in terms of brutality and twisted wickedness but the US too deals with great lies told by the oil industry etc etc , big corporations etc.

You are wrong on many levels. The "maybe" in "maybe the US has never matched the USSR" is completely uncalled for: US definitely orders of magnitude better than USSR when it comes to government lies.

But more importantly, you are wrong when you equate "US" with "oil industry" and "big corporations".

Freedom of speech and press is designed not to stop people from lying. As of now, human civilization does not know a method how to stop people from distorting the truth when it suits their interests.

Freedom of speech and press is designed *to make it impossible for one political force to usurp the means of mass information*, and thereby to feed ONE particular set of lies to the population, non-stop.

By letting many independent, and sometimes opposing players to speak (and thus sometimes to lie), freedom of speech allows consumers of information to discern the lies.

Particularly in US, unlike many other countries, government does not even HAVE government-owned mass media. All government does is press releases, interviews, briefings. Everything else, including dissemination of those press releases, analysis of them, mocking of them, parodying them, praising them, ridiculing them, is done by mass media owned by wide variety of non-governmental players.

Saying that this is somehow not very different from USSR or China is totally wrong.

 

[jim hardy]

give the ordinary folk money and some taste of "freedom" much like the artificial flavors added to modern drinks that are supposed to be natural and their happy , their too ignorant to care about some sort of Chernobyl or Fukushima or oil spills , as long as their big Chevy runs great their fine.

i think you underestimate us.

A vigorous society is a society made up of people who set their hearts on toys, and who would work for superfluities than for necessities. The self-righteous moralists decry such a society, yet it is well to keep in mind that both children and artists need luxuries more than they need necessities.
_{eric hoffer}

oops, off topic... jh

 

[Salvador]

I don't underestimate anyone Jim , I didn't say that about you for example because from what I have read here I know and think you are above the average for sure because you understand and you care , yet so many others don't.Maybe you just don't like me painting reality in it's true color.To know something or to form an opinion requires work , it requires passion towards stuff and takes time.

As for nikkkom , well you are saying I'm wrong but then again you yourself have showed strong bias towards specific opinions.As for the many independent news networks in the US , you should have noticed that the biggest ones have aligned themselves with certain political thought and party and many of them whitewash their corresponding agenda.And if you watch carefully for the majority it works well enough to form their opinion so don't get all happy just because the constitution declares free speech.
Ok I cannot say more because it would once again go offtopic and the moderators would probably dislike that.

 

[nikkkom]

IAs for the many independent news networks in the US , you should have noticed that the biggest ones have aligned themselves with certain political thought and party and many of them whitewash their corresponding agenda.

This is not surprising. People who own and/or work in them are not impassionately cold objective robots, they are people. People tend to have political ideas.

And if you watch carefully for the majority it works well enough to form their opinion.

What this even means? That people are influenced by what they hear from mass media? Yes. I know. You are also influenced by information you receive from outside world, your ideas are not appearing in your head spontaneously.

What expectations do you have? That somehow all media become extremely objective, honest, not bending their news and programs to any political bias? And anything less than this ideal picture is "almost like USSR"?

 

[mheslep]

You are wrong on many levels. The "maybe" in "maybe the US has never matched the USSR" is completely uncalled for: US definitely orders of magnitude better than USSR when it comes to government lies.

But more importantly, you are wrong when you equate "US" with "oil industry" and "big corporations".

Freedom of speech and press is designed not to stop people from lying. As of now, human civilization does not know a method how to stop people from distorting the truth when it suits their interests.

Freedom of speech and press is designed *to make it impossible for one political force to usurp the means of mass information*, and thereby to feed ONE particular set of lies to the population, non-stop.

By letting many independent, and sometimes opposing players to speak (and thus sometimes to lie), freedom of speech allows consumers of information to discern the lies.

Particularly in US, unlike many other countries, government does not even HAVE government-owned mass media. All government does is press releases, interviews, briefings. Everything else, including dissemination of those press releases, analysis of them, mocking of them, parodying them, praising them, ridiculing them, is done by mass media owned by wide variety of non-governmental players.

Saying that this is somehow not very different from USSR or China is totally wrong.

Eh, mostly not government owned. While the US has no 100% state owned Russia Today or BBC, the US mass media is not as free of the government influence as I would like. The FCC licenses and regulates every electronic outlet, now to include the internet; the US DoJ did surveillance of reporters; some outlets PBS, NPR receive direct partial government funding; and several media chief executives and anchors have incestuous relationships with this government ie brother of CBS CEO is a senior advisor to the WH.

The mass media is not

 

[Fervent Freyja]

All comes down to money , give the ordinary folk money and some taste of "freedom" much like the artificial flavors added to modern drinks that are supposed to be natural and their happy , their too ignorant to care about some sort of Chernobyl or Fukushima or oil spills , as long as their big Chevy runs great their fine.

What an ignorant statement. People have far less power than you are assigning them. I believe that most people make the most decent choices in their power, it's only inevitable that a few of them will have negative consequences. These big powers you are referring to are a large collection of normal people like myself. I have worked for a large corporation (internal audits) and sometimes had to make decisions that I regret. But, I like to think that for the most part that my work benefited the company, customers, employees, public, and government. Sometimes you have to make decisions that conflict with your integrity and cannot ensure a fair disbursement between so many entities in every situation, but I always worked as decently as possible, within my control. I refuse to believe in these higher scary powers you are making references towards. That is all people owe to others in the world, to act with as much decency as possible. I would not condemn another person to feeling all the pain in the world, I don't want my daughter worrying about the atrocities taking place. I want her to know of it, so that she can be grateful for her quality of life and live gracefully, making decent choices throughout life that do not hurt others too much- but she should be able to enjoy a nice handbag or wine without feeling guilty. There are limits to what one person can do. We are more confined than it seems.

 

[Salvador]

Want bias in western media , look at Huffingtonpost for example , and their bias is more than just "people have feelings and political ideas" that is a bias which is made on purpose to serve a specific agenda or set of values and beliefs.All you have to do is mix in a bit of pure BS and comedy time after time and the message goes across and through like a hot knife on butter.

I'm sorry Fervent `and all others if my statement sounded ignorant but no statistic if perfect and can't cover all possible human behavior and all persons.
Sadly a lot of people are ignorant and selfish and if they wouldn't be like you imply then I think our history and state of affairs would also be different.

 

[nikkkom]

Want bias in western media , look at Huffingtonpost for example , and their bias is more than just "people have feelings and political ideas" that is a bias which is made on purpose to serve a specific agenda or set of values and beliefs.

Yes. I'll tell again: I agree with you, this does happen.
No one knows how to stop people from lying, misrepresenting facts, omitting "inconvenient" facts, etc. You don't like it? Well, I don't like it either.