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physicist 12345
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i want to ask why the feed back at multivibrator must be positive feedback ?
Feedback needed for an oscillator or multivibrator
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SUMMARY
The discussion centers on the necessity of positive feedback in multivibrators and oscillators. Positive feedback is essential for self-excitation, allowing the output voltage to reinforce the input signal, thus maintaining oscillation. The concept is grounded in stability criteria, specifically the Nyquist and Barkhausen criteria, which dictate that without positive feedback, an oscillator would not function effectively. The multivibrator, described as a two-stage amplifier, requires this feedback mechanism to achieve infinite gain, which is crucial for its operation.
PREREQUISITES- Understanding of positive feedback in electronic circuits
- Familiarity with stability criteria, specifically Nyquist and Barkhausen
- Basic knowledge of multivibrator circuits and their configurations
- Concept of gain in amplifiers and its relationship with feedback
- Study the Nyquist stability criterion in detail
- Learn about the Barkhausen stability criterion and its applications
- Explore the design and operation of astable multivibrators
- Examine the mathematical relationships between gain and feedback in amplifiers
Electronics students, circuit designers, and engineers interested in oscillator design and feedback mechanisms in amplifiers will benefit from this discussion.
- #2
berkeman
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Can you post links to the reading you've been doing? Why fundamentally do you need positive feedback to form an oscillator?physicist 12345 said:
- #3
physicist 12345
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berkeman said:
i read chapter 18 (switching circuits ) at (principles of electronics by v.k mehta) ..
section 18:10
he mention that the multivibrator is a two stage amplifier that work with a positive feed back .. i can take a screenshot if you need ..
the use of positive feed back at oscillators i already understand ..
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berkeman
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That would help, thank you.physicist 12345 said:
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LvW
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physicist 12345 said:
To answer this question it is necessary for you to know the meaning of the term "stability" and to be familiar with stability criteria (Nyquist, Barkhausen,).
Intuitively, each harmonic oscillator and each multivibrator needs a kind of self-excitement (autonomous build-up signal amplitudes). For this purpose, a part of the output voltage must be coupled back to the input - without any phase shift: That`s positive feedback.
- #8
physicist 12345
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LvW said:
it seems helpful .. but at multivibrator say- astable- how the capacitor and resistor make positive feed back
- #9
LvW
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physicist 12345 said:
Which circuit are you referring to? With opamp or with transistors?
Please, show the circuit. Otherwise, explanations are problematic.
- #10
Svein
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Here is the simplest possible circuit for an astable multivibrator:
- #11
jim hardy
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Hmmmm
since we're dealing with an introductory textbook
maybe a boiled down answer is best for right now ?
The multivibrator is described as an amplifier
but it has no input
meaning
its gain, output/input, must be infinite.
Since no amplifier can have truly infinite gain , in order to have an output it must get an input from someplace.
That someplace is from its own output.
It must get its input from a fraction of its output and that input must be in a direction to reinforce output not oppose it. And, that is the definition of positive feedback.
Were feedback in a direction to oppose further output it'd soon drive output to zero which is what negative feedback does.
When you study feedback they will explain that
An amplifier with gain A
and feedback B
has gain A/(AB-1)
note that when product AB = +1 the denominator becomes zero so gain becomes infinite and it'll make an output with no input and that's an oscillator..
but if product AB is negative , which is negative feedback, gain is always less than A.
For simplicity set A = 1 and plot gain for B = -1 , -0.5, 0, +0.5 and +1
since we're dealing with an introductory textbook
maybe a boiled down answer is best for right now ?
The multivibrator is described as an amplifier
but it has no input
meaning
its gain, output/input, must be infinite.
Since no amplifier can have truly infinite gain , in order to have an output it must get an input from someplace.
That someplace is from its own output.
It must get its input from a fraction of its output and that input must be in a direction to reinforce output not oppose it. And, that is the definition of positive feedback.
Were feedback in a direction to oppose further output it'd soon drive output to zero which is what negative feedback does.
When you study feedback they will explain that
An amplifier with gain A
and feedback B
has gain A/(AB-1)
note that when product AB = +1 the denominator becomes zero so gain becomes infinite and it'll make an output with no input and that's an oscillator..
but if product AB is negative , which is negative feedback, gain is always less than A.
For simplicity set A = 1 and plot gain for B = -1 , -0.5, 0, +0.5 and +1