Find the Period of the rotation, the math gets tricky

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a block on a rotating cone, where the goal is to find an expression for the period of rotation. The scenario includes considerations of gravitational forces and static friction acting on the block.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to break down the forces acting on the block and formulates equations based on those forces. They question the validity of their setup and whether additional equations are necessary. There is also inquiry into the mathematical operations involving their equations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the use of friction in the equations and the mathematical manipulations involved. The original poster expresses a sense of resolution after deriving an expression for the period, though the discussion remains open to further exploration of the underlying assumptions and methods used.

Contextual Notes

Participants are discussing the implications of using static friction and the conditions under which their mathematical manipulations are valid. There is a mention of a previous thread that may influence their reasoning.

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Homework Statement



[PLAIN]http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/6932/72101948.png

In the diagram above, a block is on a cone rotating above a height of h and is a distance r from the rotating axis. The cone is subjected to gravity, but is resisting due to the static friction on the cone (static friction because it is not going up or down). Find an expression of the period of this rotation.

The Attempt at a Solution



[PLAIN]http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9218/28918584.png

Breaking the components of the forces I get

(1) [tex]ncos(\alpha) - fsin(\alpha) = \frac{mv^2}{r}[/tex]

(2) [tex]nsin(\alpha) +fcos(\alpha)=mg[/tex]

(3) [tex]v^2 = \frac{4\pi^2 r^2}{T^2}[/tex]

Now, here is the problem(s)

Did I set it up right? Is there another equation missing?

Also, is it mathematically correctly to divide (1) by (2)

According to this thread https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=465924 I can, but is only because the functions were linear? If I multiply (1) by [tex]sin(\alpha)[/tex] and (2) by cos(\alpha), can I add (1) to (2)?
 
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Can some mod edit my tex in cos\alpha...? I forgot to add [ tex] and [/tex]
 
Last edited:
Omg I solved it

[tex]f = \mu n[/tex]

And so

[tex](1)ncos\alpha - \mu nsin\alpha = \frac{mv^2}{r}[/tex]

[tex](2)nsin\alpha + \mu ncos\alpha = mg[/tex]

From Euclid's elements, I can divide (1) by (2) and I get

[tex]\frac{cos\alpha - \mu sin\alpha}{sin\alpha + \mu cos\alpha}[/tex]

Then substituting [tex]4\frac{\pi^2 r^2}{T^2} = v^2[/tex] and simplifying I get

T = [tex]\pm 2\pi\sqrt{\frac{r}{g}\frac{sin\alpha - \mu cos\alpha}{cos\alpha - \mu sin\alpha}}}[/tex]

And of course we reject negative period
 
Omg I solved it

[tex]f = \mu n[/tex]

And so

[tex](1)ncos\alpha - \mu nsin\alpha = \frac{mv^2}{r}[/tex]

[tex](2)nsin\alpha + \mu ncos\alpha = mg[/tex]

From Euclid's elements, I can divide (1) by (2) and I get

[tex]\frac{cos\alpha - \mu sin\alpha}{sin\alpha + \mu cos\alpha} = \frac{v^2}{rg}[/tex]

Then substituting [tex]\frac{4\pi^2 r^2}{T^2} = v^2[/tex] and simplifying I get

[tex]T = \pm 2\pi\sqrt{\frac{r}{g}\left (\frac{sin\alpha - \mu cos\alpha}{cos\alpha - \mu sin\alpha}\right )}}[/tex]

And of course we reject negative period
 

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