Finding definite integral (trigonometric)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding bounds for the function \( x \sin x \) over the interval from 0 to \( \pi \), and subsequently determining bounds for the definite integral of this function within the same limits. The subject area includes trigonometric functions and integral calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the problem by analyzing the function \( x \sin x \) and its behavior at the endpoints of the interval. They express confusion about the meaning of bounds and whether there are multiple methods to establish them.
  • Some participants suggest using graphical representations to clarify the relationships between the functions involved, indicating that visualizing the functions may aid in understanding.
  • Further attempts are made to propose specific bounds for the integral, with participants questioning the validity of their proposed inequalities.

Discussion Status

The discussion has progressed with some participants gaining clarity on the problem after graphical analysis. There is an ongoing exploration of different bounds for the integral, with suggestions being made and refined. While some participants express confidence in their findings, there is no explicit consensus on the best approach or bounds yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraint of not needing the best possible bounds, and there is an emphasis on understanding the problem rather than arriving at a definitive solution. The original poster's confusion about the question indicates a need for clearer definitions and interpretations of the terms used.

Lord Dark
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Homework Statement


Hi guys ,, i have the following question (it's in the attachment) :
Find m and M such that m <= x sin x <= M if 0 <=x <= pi. (Any reasonably good bounds will do,
I am not asking for the best possible bounds.)
Hence find bounds on the value of the integral[x sin(x),0 to pi]



Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


i have a formal solution (it's in the attachment) but the problem is i don't understand the question. Before i saw the question ,, i tried to solved it like this :
since (0 <=x <= pi) then 0 <= x sin x <= 0 ( i solved for zero and pi) ,, and stopped there.
can anyone tell me the problem in a way that i can understand ,, and in the answer it says "This is certainly not the best you could do, but it is definitely a bound" what does he mean ? is there many other ways to solve it ?? . (Thanks in advanced)
 

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can anyone tell me the problem in a way that i can understand

If you graph the three functions y=x*sin(x), y=x, and y=-x using a window of xmin=0, xmax=30, ymin=-30, ymax=30, then I bet you will understand.

If you're still puzzled, just graph the two functions y=abs(x*sin(x)) and y=x using the same window. Ask again if you are still confused after graphing.
 
yep ,, got it :D ,, thanks very much mate,, but there is something else ,, i can get other bounds right ?? such as :
0<= integral[x*sin(x),0 to pi]<= ((pi)^2)/2 ,, is this right ?
 
Lord Dark said:
yep ,, got it :D ,, thanks very much mate,, but there is something else ,, i can get other bounds right ?? such as :
0<= integral[x*sin(x),0 to pi]<= ((pi)^2)/2 ,, is this right ?

Make it 0<= | integral[x*sin(x),0 to pi] | <= ((pi)^2)/2 (with absolute value) and I'll agree.

Edited to add: Oh, never mind. x *sin(x) is positive there. Good job.
 
lol ,, thanks :D
 

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