Finding the depression and the tension of the string

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of determining the depression and tension in a string when a mass is suspended from it. The subject area includes concepts from mechanics, particularly involving forces, tension, and geometry related to right triangles.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between tension and weight, questioning the validity of initial assumptions and equations. Various attempts to apply Pythagorean theorem and Hooke's law are discussed, with some participants expressing confusion over the setup and the variables used.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and corrections to each other's reasoning. Some guidance has been offered regarding the formation of right triangles and the assumptions made about the mass's position. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored, but there is no explicit consensus on the correct approach or solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential misunderstandings regarding the setup of the problem, including the positioning of the mass and the definitions of variables such as ##l_o## and ##\Delta l##. The discussion reflects a learning process where assumptions are questioned and clarified.

  • #31
ehild said:
You droppwd a "2" somewhere. I got the given result, ΔL=L0/20, with approximating L≈L0 where it was possible (Lis the stretched length):
Pythagoras: (L/2)2-(L0/2)2=y2 ----> (L-L0)(L+L0)=4y2
using L≈L0,
(L-L0)=2y2/L0. (1)
Given for spring constant: k=1000mg/L0, (2)
From Hook's Law, and using (1) and (2):
k(L-L0)=T, that is 2000mgy2/L02=T. (3)
From force balance: mg=2Tcos(θ). As cos(θ)=y/(L/2) mg=4Ty/L (4).
From (3) and (4), and taking L≈L0, the result is y=L0/20.
Thanks, I've found it.
Post #22 fourth equation should read ##2a=l_0+\delta##, not ##2a=l_0+2\delta##.
 
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  • #32
I'm also confused as to where the factor of two comes into play. For my equations, I have:

$$[1] \qquad F_{net,y} = mg = 2Tsin(\theta) \approx 2Ttan(\theta) \Rightarrow T = \frac{mg}{2tan(\theta)}$$ where ##\theta## is the angle between the horizontal and and the wire.
$$[2] \qquad tan(\theta) = \frac{y}{\frac{l_0}{2}} = \frac{2y}{l_0}$$
$$[3] \qquad l'^2 = y^2 + (\frac{l_0}{2})^2 \ \Rightarrow l' \approx \frac{l_0}{2} + \frac{y^2}{l_0}$$ where I used the binomial expansion to expand the root term above
$$[4] \qquad T = k(l' - \frac{l_0}{2}) = \frac{mgy^2}{\delta l_0}$$

combining it all, I end up with:

$$y^3 = \frac{l_0^3}{4000}$$

and the only way I end up with the correct solution of ##y=\frac{l_0}{20}## is if in the 4th equation that ##T=2k(l' - \frac{l_0}{2})##. Is there any physical reason as to why that should be the case?
 
  • #33
magic said:
the only way I end up with the correct solution of ##y=\frac{l_0}{20}## is if in the 4th equation that ##T=2k(l' - \frac{l_0}{2})##. Is there any physical reason as to why that should be the case?
Indeed there is.
The whole wire has relaxed length ##l_0## and is extended to length ##2l'##.
k is the constant for the wire as a whole. Half the wire would have twice the constant.
 
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  • #34
Thank you haruspex! It completely slipped from me that ##k## depends just as much on the geometry of the wire as it does with the material.
 

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