Finding the depression and the tension of the string

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The discussion revolves around calculating the tension and depression of a wire when a mass is suspended from it. Initial assumptions about tension being equal to the weight of the mass were found to be incorrect, leading to confusion in applying the Pythagorean theorem and Hooke's law. Participants debated the correct formation of right triangles and the implications of the mass's position on the wire's tension and extension. Ultimately, the correct relationships were derived, leading to the conclusion that the depression should be approximately equal to l_o/20 and the tension to 5mg, aligning with textbook answers. The conversation emphasizes the importance of accurately modeling the physical scenario and clarifying assumptions in problem-solving.
  • #31
ehild said:
You droppwd a "2" somewhere. I got the given result, ΔL=L0/20, with approximating L≈L0 where it was possible (Lis the stretched length):
Pythagoras: (L/2)2-(L0/2)2=y2 ----> (L-L0)(L+L0)=4y2
using L≈L0,
(L-L0)=2y2/L0. (1)
Given for spring constant: k=1000mg/L0, (2)
From Hook's Law, and using (1) and (2):
k(L-L0)=T, that is 2000mgy2/L02=T. (3)
From force balance: mg=2Tcos(θ). As cos(θ)=y/(L/2) mg=4Ty/L (4).
From (3) and (4), and taking L≈L0, the result is y=L0/20.
Thanks, I've found it.
Post #22 fourth equation should read ##2a=l_0+\delta##, not ##2a=l_0+2\delta##.
 
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  • #32
I'm also confused as to where the factor of two comes into play. For my equations, I have:

$$[1] \qquad F_{net,y} = mg = 2Tsin(\theta) \approx 2Ttan(\theta) \Rightarrow T = \frac{mg}{2tan(\theta)}$$ where ##\theta## is the angle between the horizontal and and the wire.
$$[2] \qquad tan(\theta) = \frac{y}{\frac{l_0}{2}} = \frac{2y}{l_0}$$
$$[3] \qquad l'^2 = y^2 + (\frac{l_0}{2})^2 \ \Rightarrow l' \approx \frac{l_0}{2} + \frac{y^2}{l_0}$$ where I used the binomial expansion to expand the root term above
$$[4] \qquad T = k(l' - \frac{l_0}{2}) = \frac{mgy^2}{\delta l_0}$$

combining it all, I end up with:

$$y^3 = \frac{l_0^3}{4000}$$

and the only way I end up with the correct solution of ##y=\frac{l_0}{20}## is if in the 4th equation that ##T=2k(l' - \frac{l_0}{2})##. Is there any physical reason as to why that should be the case?
 
  • #33
magic said:
the only way I end up with the correct solution of ##y=\frac{l_0}{20}## is if in the 4th equation that ##T=2k(l' - \frac{l_0}{2})##. Is there any physical reason as to why that should be the case?
Indeed there is.
The whole wire has relaxed length ##l_0## and is extended to length ##2l'##.
k is the constant for the wire as a whole. Half the wire would have twice the constant.
 
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  • #34
Thank you haruspex! It completely slipped from me that ##k## depends just as much on the geometry of the wire as it does with the material.
 

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