Finding the generator function for 4 variables

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a generating function for a transformation involving four variables in the context of canonical transformations in Hamiltonian mechanics. The original poster presents a transformation and seeks to derive the generating function associated with it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to evaluate the expression involving the differentials of the variables to identify a generating function. They express their findings and seek validation of their approach. Other participants question the steps taken to derive the total differential and the conclusions drawn from it.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants engaging in a detailed examination of the steps involved in deriving the generating function. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need for elaboration on specific transformations and assumptions made during the process.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original poster has omitted some details in their derivation, prompting requests for clarification on how certain expressions were simplified. There is an emphasis on ensuring that all transformations are accounted for in the context of the problem.

LCSphysicist
Messages
644
Reaction score
163
Homework Statement
Generating function
Relevant Equations
.
Prove directly that the transformation $$Q_{1} = q_{1}, P_{1} = p_{1} − 2p_{2}$$ $$Q_{2} = p_{2}, P_{2} = −2q_{1} − q_{2}$$ is canonical and find a generating functionSo the first part is easy and can be skipped here. I have some difficults regarding the second part, namely, the one that ask for the generator function.

My approach was to evaluate the object ##\sum_i p_i dq_i - P_i dQ_i##, i have read at MG Calkin that if this object can be written as a total differential ##dF##, this one is (can be) the generating function.

So, expandin the differential, i have got that ##\sum_i p_i dq_i - P_i dQ_i = d(p_2q_2 + 2p_2q_1) \implies F = F(P_2,p_2) = -p_2P_2##.

What do you think? is it ok?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Herculi said:
Homework Statement:: Generating function
Relevant Equations:: .

Prove directly that the transformation $$Q_{1} = q_{1}, P_{1} = p_{1} − 2p_{2}$$ $$Q_{2} = p_{2}, P_{2} = −2q_{1} − q_{2}$$ is canonical and find a generating functionSo the first part is easy and can be skipped here. I have some difficults regarding the second part, namely, the one that ask for the generator function.

My approach was to evaluate the object ##\sum_i p_i dq_i - P_i dQ_i##, i have read at MG Calkin that if this object can be written as a total differential ##dF##, this one is (can be) the generating function.

So, expandin the differential, i have got that ##\sum_i p_i dq_i - P_i dQ_i = d(p_2q_2 + 2p_2q_1) \implies F = F(P_2,p_2) = -p_2P_2##.

What do you think? is it ok?
It looks like you have omitted a lot of work.
Starting from ##dF = \sum_i p_i dq_i - P_i dQ_i##, how did you arrive at ##dF = d(p_2q_2 + 2p_2q_1)## and then to ##F(P_2,p_2) = -p_2P_2##?
 
Mark44 said:
It looks like you have omitted a lot of work.
Starting from ##dF = \sum_i p_i dq_i - P_i dQ_i##, how did you arrive at ##dF = d(p_2q_2 + 2p_2q_1)## and then to ##F(P_2,p_2) = -p_2P_2##?
Yes. Actually, i have just expressed all ##dQ_i, dP_i## in ##dF = \sum_i p_i dq_i - P_i dQ_i## in terms of ##dq_i, dp_i##. Eventually some terms cut off and we can express the results as ##dF = d(p_2q_2 + 2p_2q_1)##.
Now, ##d(p_2q_2 + 2p_2q_1) = d(p_2(-P_2))## from the summary, so i just concluded that ##F(P_2,p_2) = -p_2P_2##
 
Herculi said:
Yes. Actually, i have just expressed all ##dQ_i, dP_i## in ##dF = \sum_i p_i dq_i - P_i dQ_i## in terms of ##dq_i, dp_i##. Eventually some terms cut off and we can express the results as ##dF = d(p_2q_2 + 2p_2q_1)##.
"Eventually" is what I'm asking you to elaborate on.
Herculi said:
Now, ##d(p_2q_2 + 2p_2q_1) = d(p_2(-P_2))## from the summary, so i just concluded that ##F(P_2,p_2) = -p_2P_2##
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
21
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K