Finding the Initial Pressure of A Balloon

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the initial pressure of a balloon containing argon gas, which undergoes a volume change while being heated. The problem involves concepts from thermodynamics, specifically isothermal and adiabatic processes, and requires the application of the ideal gas law.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore various equations related to isothermal and adiabatic changes, questioning the appropriateness of each approach given the problem's context.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the calculations and the possibility of both isothermal and adiabatic conditions applying simultaneously.
  • There is an attempt to convert energy units and calculate the number of moles of argon gas, with participants discussing the implications of these calculations on the final pressure.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, sharing calculations and expressing confusion over the results. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need to find the number of moles, but no consensus on the correct approach or final answer has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note constraints such as the requirement to use a limited number of trials in their online homework system, which affects their ability to verify answers. There is also mention of the density and molecular weight of argon, which are relevant to the calculations being performed.

chunkytuna21
Messages
37
Reaction score
0
A balloon contains 3.90 m3 of argon gas. It is slowly heated at a constant temperature so that its volume triples. If the gas does 3.00 kJ of work in the expansion, what was the initial pressure in the balloon?

Isothermal Change of an Ideal Gas: W= -nRT(ln Vf/Vi)

PiVi=PfVf= nRT

Adiabatic Change of an Ideal Gas: Pi(Vi^1.67)= Pf(Vf^1.67)
Dealing with Argon which is a monoatomic gas hence the 1.67

PiVi/Ti= PfVf/Tf

I plugged my values into the isothermal equation: 3.00kJ= -nRT(ln 11.7/3.90) and solved for nRT. The 11.7 is my final volume because it triples, right? I got 2.73071768. Then, based on the PiVi= nRT equation I solved for Pi. Pi(3.90)= 2.73071768 and got Pi= 0.70018402. This was incorrect.

Then, I tried solving for Pi using the Adiabatic Change equation: Pi(3.90^1.67)= 2.73071768 and got Pi= 0.281318899. This was also incorrect. Where am I going wrong?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Convert kJ to J.
 
I tried that already. I'm thinking it's either my calculations or my approach to the problem. I find it kind of weird that it could be both an isothermal and adiabatic change, but what do I know?
 
In the problem you have to find out number of moles of argon gas.
Density of argon = 1.784 kg/m^3
Molecular weight = 40.
 
Ok, I found the moles of argon, but that still doesn't give me the right answer.

3.90m^3 of argon * 1.784= 6.9576kg
6.9576kg * 1000= 6957.6g
6957.6g/40g/mol= 173.94mol

Plugged it into the equation:
3kJ or 3000J (doesn't work either way)= (173.94)(8.314)(T)(ln3)
Solved for nRT by 3kJ/ln3= 2.73071768
PiVi= nRT
Pi(3.90)= 2.73071768
Pi= 0.700MPa or 700184Pa, both are wrong.

I even tried it the other way:
Pi(3.90^1.67)= 2.73071768
Pi= 0.281MPa or 281318Pa, also wrong.

This problem doesn't make any sense and my answers came out the same as they did in my first post even with the moles.
 
Last edited:
Pi*Vi = nRT. So
Pi = nRT/V
= 173.94*2731/3.9
= ?
 
= 121802.6, but that's still wrong. 2731 should be 2.731. It doesn't really matter though because I did it both ways.
 
Last edited:
What is the answer?
 
I don't know the answer; my online homework gives me a set amount of trials. I don't get the answer until I have used up all the trials or solve it myself. I've still got 10 trials left so I won't know the answer for awhile, but according to your suggestion the initial pressure should be 121803. I still need to know how to solve the problem because it might show up on my exam.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Any ideas?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
8K
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
6K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
6K
Replies
11
Views
3K