Firing an object into orbit using a moon's gravity

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    Gravity Orbit
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of launching an object into orbit around a planet using a hypothetical space "gun" and the gravitational influence of a moon. Participants explore the mechanics of achieving a stable orbit without traditional rocket propulsion, considering various speeds and directions for the launch.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that without rockets, an object could only loop around the planet and return to its starting point.
  • Another participant questions this assertion, implying that there may be other orbital possibilities.
  • A reference to Newton's cannonball is made, indicating a theoretical framework for understanding orbital mechanics.
  • Concerns are raised about achieving a stable orbit above the atmosphere, especially considering air resistance and escape velocities.
  • One participant proposes that a carefully organized launch could allow an object to pass close to the moon, potentially deflecting it into a non-returning orbit, though stability of such an orbit is questioned.
  • There is speculation about the characteristics of the resulting orbit, including its eccentricity and stability after subsequent passes near the moon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the possibility of launching an object into a stable orbit without rockets. There is no consensus on the mechanics involved or the feasibility of achieving such an orbit using the moon's gravity.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations related to air resistance, escape velocities, and the stability of orbits influenced by the moon's gravity, but these aspects remain unresolved.

guss
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Let's say I'm on a planet and I have a space "gun" that can launch an object upwards at any speed in any direction.

Typically with this, you could not launch an object without any rockets into orbit because the best you could do is make the object loop around the planet to exactly where it started.

Now, introduce a moon orbiting the same planet. Using this moon's gravity, is it possible to construct a speed and direction for the object to be shot at so that it ends up in an orbit around the main planet?
 
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guss said:
Typically with this, you could not launch an object without any rockets into orbit because the best you could do is make the object loop around the planet to exactly where it started.

Are you sure about that?
 
guss said:
Typically with this, you could not launch an object without any rockets into orbit because the best you could do is make the object loop around the planet to exactly where it started.
That's an orbit too. I guess you mean some other orbit, which doesn't return to the launch point. If you include air resitance in the atmosphere this is already the case. You can fire it above escape velocity, but it will lose some speed in the atmosphere. But I'm not sure you could achieve a stable orbit above the atmosphere this way.

guss said:
Now, introduce a moon orbiting the same planet. Using this moon's gravity, is it possible to construct a speed and direction for the object to be shot at so that it ends up in an orbit around the main planet?
Maybe if you launch it above the Planet's escape velocity, but below the Planet+Moon escape velocity?
 
guss said:
Typically with this, you could not launch an object without any rockets into orbit because the best you could do is make the object loop around the planet to exactly where it started.

Maybe not in principle but absolutely right if you are talking about a 'normal' orbit around the Earth. With a lot of care, you could organise a 'cannon' shot to pass close enough to the Moon to deflect the craft into an orbit that would not return to its launch point. I suspect that this orbit could give you trouble 'next time around' if it came close to the Moon again and it might not be too stable. You would be after an elliptical orbit with fairly low eccentricity, I presume?
 

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