First order ordinary differential equation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a first-order ordinary differential equation (ODE) related to the temperature change of mercury over time, modeled by the equation m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}\frac{dT_{Hg}}{dt} = Q, where Q is defined in terms of heat transfer. The original poster seeks to determine the temperature T_{Hg} at a specific time, given initial conditions and constants.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the formulation of the ODE, with suggestions to simplify the notation for clarity. There is a focus on the integration steps and the application of initial conditions to derive the solution. Some participants question the handling of the initial condition and its impact on the derived equation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with various participants providing insights and alternative approaches to the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the notation and integration process, but there is no explicit consensus on the correctness of the final expressions derived.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the original notation and the potential for errors in applying initial conditions. There is an emphasis on ensuring clarity in the mathematical representation of the problem.

KillerZ
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Homework Statement



I haven't done ODEs in a few years and I am trying to do this equation:

m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}\frac{dT_{Hg}}{dt} = Q

Q = hA(T_{air} - T_{Hg})

T_{Hg}(t = 0) = 20

I need to find T_{Hg}(t=590)

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution



h, A, m_{Hg}, C_{p,Hg}, T_{air} are all constants

\frac{dT_{Hg}}{dt} = \frac{hA(T_{air} - T_{Hg})}{m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}

\frac{m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA(T_{air} - T_{Hg})} dT_{Hg} = dt

\int\frac{m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA(T_{air} - T_{Hg})} dT_{Hg} = \int dt

\frac{-m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA}\int\frac{1}{(-T_{air} + T_{Hg})} dT_{Hg} = \int dt

\frac{-m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA} ln|T_{Hg} - T_{air}| = t + c

ln|T_{Hg} - T_{air}| = \frac{t + c}{\frac{-m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA}}

T_{Hg} - T_{air} = e^{t/\frac{-m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA}}e^{c/\frac{-m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA}}

e^{c/\frac{-m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA}} = c

T_{Hg} - T_{air} = ce^{t/\frac{-m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA}}

T_{Hg} = ce^{t/\frac{-m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA}} + T_{air}

T_{Hg}(t = 0) = 20

T_{air} = -7

h = 3.9

A = 0.00176

C_{p,HG} = 139.0908

m_{Hg} = 0.05

20 = ce^{0/\frac{-(0.05)(139.0908)}{(3.9)(0.00176)}} + (-7)

c = 27

T_{Hg} = 27e^{t/\frac{-m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}{hA}} + T_{air}

T_{Hg}(t=590)

T_{Hg}(t=590) = 27e^{590/\frac{-(0.05)(139.0908)}{(3.9)(0.00176)}} + (-7)

T_{Hg}(t=590) = 8.0822
 
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Man, you must like typing subscripts. Why not call your dependent variable T and write the equation in the form

\frac{dT}{dt} = k(T_a - T)

in the first place and put the constants in for k at the end? It would be much easier to read, not to mention typing it all in. Anyway, it looks like you solved it OK, with the caveat that I didn't check all the details.
 
I think you made an error in using your initial condition (using the notation of LCKurtz) you had:
<br /> -\ln |T_{a}-T|=kt+c<br />
Now if T(0)=T_{0}, then I would use that at this point here to tell you that -\ln |T_{a}-T_{0}|=c and your equation becomes:
<br /> -\ln |T_{a}-T|=kt-\ln |T_{a}-T_{0}|<br />
From here I think it is just algebra to obtain the correct answer.
 
LCKurtz said:
Man, you must like typing subscripts. Why not call your dependent variable T and write the equation in the form

\frac{dT}{dt} = k(T_a - T)

in the first place and put the constants in for k at the end? It would be much easier to read, not to mention typing it all in. Anyway, it looks like you solved it OK, with the caveat that I didn't check all the details.

OK doing it with the substitutions:

k = \frac{hA}{m_{Hg}C_{p,Hg}}

and

T = T_{Hg}

\frac{dT}{dt} = k(T_a - T)

\frac{1}{k(T_a - T)}dT = dt

\frac{-1}{k}\int\frac{1}{(-T_a + T)}dT = \int dt

\frac{-1}{k}ln|-T_a + T| = t + c

ln|-T_a + T| = -kt + c

-T_a + T = e^{-kt + c}

T = ce^{-kt} + T_a

Then initial conditions T(t=0) = 20

20 = ce^{-k(0)} + (-7)

27 = c

T = 27e^{-kt} + T_a
 
Last edited:
This line is incorrect:
<br /> T=ce^{-kt}+T_{a}<br />
 

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