Fixed Point Iteration Requirements

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the requirements for fixed point iteration, specifically examining the convergence of the sequence defined by the iteration function \( x_{n+1}=\frac{1}{3}(x_n^2+2) \). Participants explore the conditions under which this sequence converges to the fixed point at \( x=1 \) for initial values in the interval \( -2 < x_0 < 2 \), and whether the traditional requirement of \( |f'(x)|<1 \) can be relaxed.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that for convergence to a fixed point, \( f(x) \) must be continuous and differentiable, and \( |f'(x)|<1 \) on the interval.
  • Another participant suggests examining the behavior of sequences generated from various starting points, indicating that the behavior is straightforward to describe.
  • A participant claims to have shown that starting points in the interval \( (-2,2) \) lead to values in \( (1,2) \), but questions the completeness of this assertion.
  • There is a discussion about the iteration function being strictly decreasing after the first iteration, with a participant expressing uncertainty about how to prove this property.
  • One participant proposes that it may be more natural to prove that the distance from the fixed point \( 1 \) decreases with each iteration, suggesting a focus on \( |y-1| < |x-1| \).
  • Confusion arises regarding the proof of strict decrease, with a participant questioning if they are missing a simple aspect of the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty and disagreement regarding the completeness of the convergence proof and the behavior of the iteration function. There is no consensus on whether the requirement \( |f'(x)|<1 \) can be omitted or how to rigorously demonstrate the properties of the iteration function.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their proofs and reasoning, particularly concerning the strict decrease of the iteration function and the behavior of the sequence across specified intervals.

k3N70n
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Hi

I wrote a numerical analysis midterm earlier this week and there was one question I couldn't figure out. I was wondering if anyone had some insight.

What I've been told and what I've read in many many places is that
f(x) will converge to a fixed point on an interval I if
1. f(x) is continuous and differentiable on I
2. |f'(x)|<1 on I

Now the question I was posed was given x_{n+1}=\frac{1}{3}(x_n^2+2) prove that x_n\rightarrow 1 as n\rightarrow\infty if -2&lt;x_0&lt;2 (that is prove x_{n+1} is between x_n and 1 when n \geq 1)

What was most natural to me was to find the interval where |f'(x)|<1 which happens to be on (-\frac{3}{2},\frac{3}{2}). It easy to see (but not so easy to prove) that the interval (-2,2) will work as well. How would you go about showing that? Do think that it would be possible to generalize this such that the requirement |f'(x)|<1 would not be needed for fixed point iteration?

Anyway, hope this interest someone else.
 
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Have you looked at a few of the sequences produced from different starting points? The behavior is very easy to describe... it's the sort of behavior whose existence I would expect to be very easy to prove directly (particularly due to the algebraically simple nature of the iteration).
 
Yes I have looked at different starting points. I did show that for all starting points on (-2,2) you end up on (1,2). I also noted that the iteration function was strictly decreasing after the first iteration but I wasn't able to show that. I guess if I was more specific I would have said that was my question.
 
k3N70n said:
I did show that for all starting points on (-2,2) you end up on (1,2).
All of them? Are you sure?

I also noted that the iteration function was strictly decreasing after the first iteration but I wasn't able to show that. I guess if I was more specific I would have said that was my question.
In other words,
If y = (x^2 + 2)/3 and x is in (1, 2), then y < x

But you can do better than that... you know that it's strictly decreasing to 1; in other words, the distance from 1 is decreasing. This suggests it's more natural to seek to prove
|y-1| < |x-1|.​
 
Hurkyl said:
All of them? Are you sure?

Whoops. no. that should have been (\frac{2}{3},2)
but I guess it doesn't matter much because I had already showed that it converges on (-\frac{3}{2},\frac{3}{2})

So then it remains to be shown that on (\frac{3}{2},2) that

In other words,
If y = (x^2 + 2)/3 and x is in (1, 2), then y < x

But you can do better than that... you know that it's strictly decreasing to 1; in other words, the distance from 1 is decreasing. This suggests it's more natural to seek to prove
|y-1| < |x-1|.​
I'm still confused. I do know that it is strictly decreasing but I don't know how to prove it.
What you're suggesting to me is prove:

|x_{n+1}-1|&lt;|\frac{x_n}{3}-\frac{1}{3}| for any x_n\in(\frac{3}{2},2)
I still don't know how to do that though. I there just something really stupid that I'm missing.
 

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