Flipping a polarizer 180deg. changes polarization

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of polarizers, particularly focusing on the effects of flipping a polarizer by 180 degrees versus rotating it by 90 degrees. Participants explore the implications of these actions in the context of different types of polarizers, including linear and circular polarizers, and their applications in devices like LCD screens and 3D glasses.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that flipping a polarizer by 180 degrees yields the same result as rotating it by 90 degrees, but this may depend on the type of polarizer and its orientation.
  • Others mention that certain polarizers, such as those with an additional quarter wave plate, behave differently and are designed for circular polarization.
  • A participant agrees that simple polarizers like linear films do not exhibit the same behavior as those with additional components.
  • Discussion includes the mechanics of circular polarization and how it relates to the design of glasses used in 3D viewing, with some participants explaining how quarter wave plates and polarizers work together.
  • There are inquiries about the effects of stacking multiple circularly polarizing filters and how their arrangement influences light transmission.
  • Participants propose hypothetical setups for analyzing light behavior through various combinations of polarizers and quarter wave plates, suggesting that understanding these components is crucial for analysis.
  • Visual aids and links to videos are shared to help clarify the concepts discussed, with some participants expressing appreciation for the resources provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and differing viewpoints regarding the behavior of polarizers, particularly in relation to their types and configurations. The discussion remains unresolved as multiple competing views are presented without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the lack of clarity on specific polarizer orientations and configurations, as well as the dependence on the definitions of terms like linear and circular polarization. The discussion also highlights unresolved questions about the interactions between stacked polarizers.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals studying optics, physics, or engineering, particularly those exploring the properties and applications of polarizers in various technologies.

i_amitabh
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If you have played around with polarizers you might have noticed that flipping a polarizer by 180o about the vertical axis has the same result as rotating it by 90o about the horizontal axis[i.e. flipping so that the face of the polarizer which was facing away now faces you has the same effect as rotation by 90o]

I have noticed this effect in polarizers I scavanged from LCD screens and also the flexible plastic type polarizers they have in my physics lab.

Going by a simple wire grid model of a polarizer, this result baffels me completely. I wonder what causes it.
 
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i_amitabh said:
If you have played around with polarizers you might have noticed that flipping a polarizer by 180o about the vertical axis has the same result as rotating it by 90o about the horizontal axis[i.e. flipping so that the face of the polarizer which was facing away now faces you has the same effect as rotation by 90o]
That depends on the type of polarizer and its orientation.

Some polarizers have an additional quarter wave plate included on one side (or even on both), to work as polarizers for circular polarization.

The light coming from my LCD monitor has a linear polarization.
 
I agree with mfb - you do not see this behavior in a simple polarizer such as a linear film or half wave plate.
 
This might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycY2mUZHS84
 
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A.T. said:
This might help:

Nice link!
I didn't realize that was how circular polarizers worked.
 
That's exactly an application of "circular filters". The glasses have a quarter wave plate first and a polarizer afterwards (seen in the design direction for light).

- One side let's one circular polarization through, the other glass the other one. This way, you can tilt your head and still get the right images for both eyes.[/size] If they receive a linear polarization, they let 50% through.
- Towards the eyes, the emitted light is always polarized along one axis, where the axis is an arbitrary design choice.
- Light going in the wrong direction always leaves with a circular polarization.

The only way to block light are two polarizers behind each other - you have to flip one of the glasses.
 
Drakkith said:
Nice link!
It does a good job of explaining circular polarization. But what I didn't find is a good animation or picture explaining what happens with the waves when multiple circularly polarizing filters are stacked. This would be interesting for these 6 cases (here with "reaL D 3D" glasses):

soac82.jpg


Note that:

- Most light comes through with same handedness and 180° flip (C), more than without the 180° flip (A).

- Blocking depends on the stacking order : See D vs. F and this video comparing the effect of 90° in F vs D:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVD9JA0hk_E

C vs. E is similar: Only C blocks when rotated by 90° while E is always clear.
 
Without a known polarizer, we cannot determine the full orientation of the elements in the glasses, but here is a possible arrangement:

left eye:
* quarter-wave plate "left-handed circular (I will call this LC) -> vertical (V)" (and right-handed circular (RC) -> horizontal (H)"
* vertical polarizer
=> LC goes through, RC is blocked

right eye:
* quarter-wave plate LC->H, RC->V
* horizontal polarizer
=> LC is blocked, RC goes through

Let's look at unpolarized light in setup A:
- 50% RC -> gets blocked at the first glass
- 50% LC -> goes through the first glass, afterwards it is V polarized. At the second glass, the quarter-wave plate converts V to RC (? should be checked), the V polarizer let's half of that through => in total 25% intensity

Let's look at unpolarized light in setup A:
Now the first element is a V polarizer, it let's 50% through (which is V polarized now). The following quarter-wave plate converts this to RC, and the following quarter-wave plate converts it back to V. The last element is the V polarizer, nothing happens. 50% of the light gets through.

All other setups can be analyzed in the same way, if you know how linear polarizers and quarter-wave plates work.
 
mfb said:
All other setups can be analyzed in the same way, if you know how linear polarizers and quarter-wave plates work.
Yes, it helps to think in terms of these two components. For example the relative rotation of two stacked quarter wave plates: they either act as one half wave plate (swap polarization) or do nothing. Combined with the outer linear polarizers you get the effect in the video, that rotating the glasses has no effect.

I did a diagram on the 3D cinema. Is that correct, or one valid way to do it?:

attachment.php?attachmentid=62112&stc=1&d=1379976502.png


attachment.php?attachmentid=62113&stc=1&d=1379976502.png
 

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  • #10
Nice image, looks good!
 
  • #11
mfb said:
Nice image, looks good!

Thanks. Here is an idea I had, for a demonstration for kids . It works quite well. Obviously you need to wear a second pair of glasses to see the effect.

attachment.php?attachmentid=62221&stc=1&d=1380233404.jpg
 

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