Fluid Equilibrium Interface Shape

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the shape of a liquid interface in a 2D rectangular channel under static equilibrium influenced by gravity. Participants explore the mathematical modeling of the problem, including equations of motion, boundary conditions, and potential solutions, while considering the implications of oscillations in the liquid interface.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the shape of the liquid interface can be described by a second-order non-linear ordinary differential equation (ODE) derived from Euler's equation and Laplace's pressure jump condition.
  • Another participant suggests that the ODE can be solved numerically but questions the feasibility of obtaining an analytic solution for examining small linear normal oscillations.
  • A different participant mentions that the problem may have a closed analytic solution under certain boundary conditions, specifically when the interface approaches zero at infinity.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential oversimplification of the problem by ignoring three-dimensional effects, with references to relevant literature provided.
  • Participants discuss the approach of linearizing the governing equations to include oscillations and the use of normal mode assumptions in time.
  • One participant outlines a technique involving five linearized equations related to fluid dynamics, emphasizing the need for a pressure balance and continuity conditions.
  • There is a request for clarification on differences in approaches and recommendations for further literature on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the complexity of the problem, the validity of proposed solutions, and the methods for including oscillations. No consensus is reached regarding the best approach to solve the equations or the implications of the findings.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on boundary conditions and the potential limitations of the mathematical models discussed. The discussion highlights the unresolved nature of certain assumptions and the complexity of the equations involved.

member 428835
Hi PF!

Suppose a 2D rectangular channel with wall-normal perpendicular to the downward gravity force ##F## rests is static equilibrium. What shape would the liquid take?

Looking at the equations of motion, I think the following would have to be satisfied: $$\frac{d P}{dy} = -\rho F\\
\Delta P = \sigma k_1$$
1) Eulers equation for 1D (since gravity not in horizontal ##x##-direction)
2) Laplace pressure jump where ##\Delta P## is pressure jump from inside to outside liquid interface and 2D implies curvature ##k_2 = 0##, thus not listed.

Integrating Eulers eq yields ##P = -\rho F y + c##.

If we call the meniscus ##\Gamma(x)##, then it's curvature must be ##k_1(x) = \Gamma''(x) / (1+\Gamma(x)^2)^{3/2}##. Evaluating the pressure along the meniscus and applying the Laplace pressure jump implies $$\sigma \frac{\Gamma ''(x)}{(1+\Gamma'(x)^2 )^{3/2}} = \rho F \Gamma(x)$$ subject to $$\Gamma'(0) = -\cot \theta\\ \Gamma'(1) = 0$$ where I assume the channel has length 2. But how is this equation solved; the IC's are both at the first derivative.

For help purposes, seems like a good question for @Chestermiller and @boneh3ad though anyone's thoughts are welcomed.
 
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I haven't rederived your equation to confirm that it is correct, but, of course, this 2nd order non-linear ODE with split boundary conditions can be solved numerically.
 
Chestermiller said:
I haven't rederived your equation to confirm that it is correct, but, of course, this 2nd order non-linear ODE with split boundary conditions can be solved numerically.
Thanks for checking it out! I have a question for you; I need an analytic solution in order to examine small linear normal oscillations. Then would you suggest a good approach is to get the numerical solution and curve-fit it, and use that? Or are there more sophisticated techniques?

I noticed this problem is a well understood problem and admits a closed analytic solution if I use as a BC ##\Gamma(\infty) \to 0##. Which is close to zero at ##\Gamma'(1)##.
 
joshmccraney said:
Suppose a 2D rectangular channel with wall-normal perpendicular to the downward gravity force ##F## rests is static equilibrium. What shape would the liquid take?

It's been a while since I worked on this kind of problem, but I suspect you are oversimplifying the system- for example, I'm not sure you can simply ignore the 3D aspect of the problem. I found some relevant results, hope these are helpful:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005PhyD..209..236Shttps://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...clined-plane/7AEF7AF42BC3311BB42A193FE6F44FE5https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/59e8/b936dc64535a898064258dfb8bc052d01f7e.pdf
 
joshmccraney said:
Thanks for checking it out! I have a question for you; I need an analytic solution in order to examine small linear normal oscillations. Then would you suggest a good approach is to get the numerical solution and curve-fit it, and use that? Or are there more sophisticated techniques?

I noticed this problem is a well understood problem and admits a closed analytic solution if I use as a BC ##\Gamma(\infty) \to 0##. Which is close to zero at ##\Gamma'(1)##.
I'm not familiar with that analytic solution, but even if you know that, how would you then include oscillations.

I would start out by writing the PDE for the behavior with oscillations, then linearize with respect to the oscillations, and then separate that into the non-linear equation you have already plus the linearized equation for the oscillations (based on the nonlinear static equation solution). Then I would resolve the linearized equation into harmonics, which would reduce it to a sequence of uncoupled linear ODEs in the spatial coordinate.
 
Sorry for late reply!

Chestermiller said:
I'm not familiar with that analytic solution, but even if you know that, how would you then include oscillations.
The technique we use is to basically solve 5 linearized equations where velocity ##u## admits a potential ##\phi##. So we're inviscid, though we have viscous potential theory predictions as well. The 5 eqns are

$$
\nabla^2 \phi = 0 \,\,\, (\Omega)\\
\phi_n \cdot \hat n = 0 \,\,\,(\Sigma)\\
\int_\Gamma \phi_n = 0\,\,\,(\Gamma)\\
B[\phi_n] = 0 \,\,\, (\gamma)\\
-\phi_n''(s) - \cos^2\alpha \phi_n = \lambda^2 \phi \,\,\, (\Gamma)
$$
where ##\Omega## is liquid volume, ##\Sigma## is container walls, ##\Gamma## is equilibrium interface, ##\gamma## is equilibrium contact line, and ##\alpha## is equilibrium contact angle. Then those equations are continuity, no penetration, volume conservation, a contact line/angle condition defined by some operator ##B##, and a pressure balance among inertial pressure (linearized Bernoulli's) and Laplace pressure (linearized surface curvatures). A normal mode assumption in time is made, where the temporal component is ##\exp(i \lambda t)##.

Chestermiller said:
I would start out by writing the PDE for the behavior with oscillations, then linearize with respect to the oscillations, and then separate that into the non-linear equation you have already plus the linearized equation for the oscillations (based on the nonlinear static equation solution). Then I would resolve the linearized equation into harmonics, which would reduce it to a sequence of uncoupled linear ODEs in the spatial coordinate.

That sounds similar to what we've done, right? Clearly there is some difference since I end up with a single ODE rather than a system. Can you elaborate further or recommend literature here?
 
joshmccraney said:
Sorry for late reply!The technique we use is to basically solve 5 linearized equations where velocity ##u## admits a potential ##\phi##. So we're inviscid, though we have viscous potential theory predictions as well. The 5 eqns are

$$
\nabla^2 \phi = 0 \,\,\, (\Omega)\\
\phi_n \cdot \hat n = 0 \,\,\,(\Sigma)\\
\int_\Gamma \phi_n = 0\,\,\,(\Gamma)\\
B[\phi_n] = 0 \,\,\, (\gamma)\\
-\phi_n''(s) - \cos^2\alpha \phi_n = \lambda^2 \phi \,\,\, (\Gamma)
$$
where ##\Omega## is liquid volume, ##\Sigma## is container walls, ##\Gamma## is equilibrium interface, ##\gamma## is equilibrium contact line, and ##\alpha## is equilibrium contact angle. Then those equations are continuity, no penetration, volume conservation, a contact line/angle condition defined by some operator ##B##, and a pressure balance among inertial pressure (linearized Bernoulli's) and Laplace pressure (linearized surface curvatures). A normal mode assumption in time is made, where the temporal component is ##\exp(i \lambda t)##.
That sounds similar to what we've done, right? Clearly there is some difference since I end up with a single ODE rather than a system. Can you elaborate further or recommend literature here?
Sorry, but I don't follow your analysis. Maybe someone else can help.
 

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