Force in the Centre of a Black Hole: Explained

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Matthew Goldman
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Black hole Force Hole
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of forces at the center of a black hole, particularly comparing it to the gravitational force at the center of the Earth. Participants explore the implications of black hole singularities, the concept of free-fall, and the nature of gravity in general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Matt, questions why the gravitational force at the center of a black hole is not zero, as it would be at the center of a uniformly dense sphere like Earth.
  • Another participant explains that the interior of a black hole is dynamic and not static, emphasizing that everything must fall into the singularity and that the interior is a vacuum.
  • A further contribution suggests that entering a black hole involves free-fall into a vacuum, leading to tidal forces rather than a static force at the center.
  • Another participant challenges the assumption that the force of gravity at the center of a black hole is large or infinite, stating that the singularity cannot be measured in conventional terms and that gravity is not described as a force in general relativity.
  • This participant also introduces the concept of tidal forces, noting that they approach infinity as one approaches the singularity, and distinguishes between tidal forces and Newtonian gravitational force.
  • They also mention that in Newtonian mechanics, gravitational forces do not crush objects due to the nature of opposing forces acting on them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of forces at the center of a black hole, with some emphasizing the dynamic and vacuum nature of the interior while others question the characterization of gravity as a force. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of force and gravity, as well as the unresolved nature of measuring forces at a singularity. The discussion also highlights the complexity of tidal forces in relation to gravitational effects.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring concepts in general relativity, black hole physics, and the nature of gravitational forces.

Matthew Goldman
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
The force in the centre of the earth, assuming it was a perfect sphere and the density was the same everywhere, would be zero as the pull from all directions would cancel. Why isn't it like this for a black hole? Surely the forces from each direction should cancel leaving zero resultant force at the centre rather than a singularity.
Thanks,
Matt
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Matthew Goldman said:
Why isn't it like this for a black hole?

Because a black hole is not an ordinary object like the Earth. The interior of a black hole is not static; it's not possible for anything to stay at the same radius. Everything has to fall into the singularity. (Also, the interior is vacuum; it's not filled with matter.)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Matthew Goldman
PeterDonis said:
(Also, the interior is vacuum; it's not filled with matter.)

I guess that intuitively the best explanation. If you enter a black hole, you won't need a drill to drive you in the center... in fact you will be free-falling into the vacuum (until you'd be able to feel the tidal forces)...
 
From #1 it sounds like you're convinced that the force of gravity at the center of a black hole is large (or maybe infinite). Actually there is no reason to think this. The center of a black hole is the singularity, which is not a point or region of spacetime -- it's like something that's been cut out of the spacetime. Therefore we can't say what it would mean to put an object there and measure the force on it.

A separate issue is that in GR we don't describe gravity as a force, and we describe free-falling objects as not accelerating, so in that sense all gravitational fields can be said to be zero everywhere.

What you can say is that if you have some measure of tidal forces T, then for a black hole \lim_{r\rightarrow0}T=\infty. (A typical measure of tidal forces would be a curvature tensor or a curvature polynomial such as the Kretschmann invariant.) A tidal force isn't the same thing as a Newtonian gravitational force.

Note that even in Newtonian mechanics, a gravitational force can't crush an object. When a fragile object such as a house of cards collapses, it's because there are two different forces acting on it, one from the table and one from the Earth's gravity. These forces are in opposite directions and are not applied to the cards at the same points.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Matthew Goldman
Thanks everyone for replying. I feel like I have things a bit straighter in my head now. Particularly the idea of free falling in.
Cheers,
Matt
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 67 ·
3
Replies
67
Views
6K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
9K
  • · Replies 57 ·
2
Replies
57
Views
4K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K