Force on an Object according to the General theory of relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of force acting on an object within the framework of general relativity (GR). Participants explore whether the motion of an object can be predicted using modified Newton's laws that incorporate relativistic mass, and the implications of gravity as a non-force in GR.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that gravity is not a force in general relativity, contrasting it with classical mechanics.
  • There is a claim that the term "relativistic mass" is outdated and not used in modern physics, with participants suggesting that substituting it into classical mechanics equations is ineffective.
  • One participant explains that in GR, the motion of an object is described as moving in a straight line through curved spacetime, rather than being influenced by a gravitational force.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes that Newtonian gravity is incompatible with relativity due to its assumptions about instantaneous action and universal time.
  • A participant proposes that the "force on an object" in GR could be interpreted as the total non-gravitational force, relating it to proper acceleration and invariant mass.
  • There is a discussion about how forces appear in the geodesic equations of GR, drawing parallels to Newtonian mechanics but highlighting the use of covariant derivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of force in general relativity, particularly concerning the role of gravity and the use of relativistic mass. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in understanding due to the complexity of the concepts involved, suggesting that a thorough explanation requires substantial background knowledge in both general relativity and classical mechanics.

KallaNikhil
What is the force acting on an object according to general theory of relativity? If there is a such a force, can we predict the motion of an object in general relativity just using the modified Newtons laws of mechanics i.e using relativistic mass of an object instead of rest mass ?
 
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KallaNikhil said:
What is the force acting on an object according to general theory of relativity? If there is a such a force, can we predict the motion of an object in general relativity just using the modified Newtons laws of mechanics i.e using relativistic mass of an object instead of rest mass ?
1) Gravity is not a force in GR
2) "relativistic mass" is a SERIOUSLY deprecated term in modern physics.
 
KallaNikhil said:
can we predict the motion of an object in general relativity just using the modified Newtons laws of mechanics i.e using relativistic mass of an object instead of rest mass ?
You cannot - in fact, substituting the relativistic mass into the equations of classical mechanics almost never works, which is why the notion of relativistic mass has been largely abandoned in the last few decades. This question comes up often enough that we have an Insights article about it: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/what-is-relativistic-mass-and-why-it-is-not-used-much/

And as phinds has already pointed out, gravity is not a force in general relativity. The effects that classical physics attributes to a gravitational force proportional to the mass are explained in general relativity as the body moving in a straight line at a constant speed (what you expect when there is no force) through a curved spacetime. Our member @A.T. has posted an excellent short video explaining how this works.
 
Newtonian gravity is fundamentally incompatible with relativity. It models the influence of gravity as having infinite speed and implicitly assumes a universal definition of "now". Relativity does not allow the former and does not define the latter. Attempts to "fix" Newtonian gravity by adding a propagation speed failed.

You need general relativity, in which gravity is not a force and mass is only one part of the source of gravity, which is the stress-energy tensor.
 
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KallaNikhil said:
What is the force acting on an object according to general theory of relativity? If there is a such a force, can we predict the motion of an object in general relativity just using the modified Newtons laws of mechanics i.e using relativistic mass of an object instead of rest mass ?

I would tend to assume that the "force on an object" in GR would be the total non-gravitational force on said object. For a particle of small extent (i.e. pointlike), it would be equal to the proper acceleration of the object divided by it's invariant mass.

It's possible an author or a poster with a question might mean something different. But that's what I'd assume what was meant by "force" in GR.

To take an example, a particle orbiting the Earth with only gravity acting on it would have no non-gravitational forces so the "force" on it would be zero. If it was charged and also in an electric field, the force would be non-zero because of the electric field.

The force would appear in the geodesic equations on the right hand side. One might say that in Newtonian mechaincs, force is mass times the ordinary derivative of the velocity, F=m dv/dt. The GR equations are similar but one takes the product of mass with the covariant derivative of the four-velocity rather than the ordinary derivative of the three-velocity.

Explaining this in proper detail takes a lot of background knoowledge, though.
 

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